Are you "Autistic?"

I use quotes because the ever-changing understanding and diagnosis of Autism/ASD/Asperger's/[whatever and however many names it's currently being called] makes me hesitant to use any words whose meaning might have changed since I last educated myself, or might change in real time as I type them.

I think this hobby, this profession, this field, probably attracts a lot of people who would be described in today's clinical parlance as "on the spectrum." So I thought I'd ask.

I guess I'll start...
As Autism awareness became more mainstream I learned more about it, and the more I learned the more things about me and about my family started to come into focus and make sense. A couple of years ago, becoming increasingly more convinced that our family (except one of my younger sisters who is somehow totally "normal") is "on the spectrum," I brought it up to my mother and she told me in confidence that my younger brother and one of my younger sisters was diagnosed with autism at an early age but she didn't tell anyone (especially not them) about it because she didn't want them treated differently and she didn't want them to feel "crippled." She didn't volunteer whether or not I was also tested, and I didn't ask. The admission I received was confirmation enough, and I figured if she wanted to say more she would have. I now suspect this is part of why we bounced back and forth between home school and Christian private school until I was almost in high school.

My brother and sister's diagnosis definitely makes sense; my brother is only just barely a functioning adult capable of living on his own. My sister is worse; she's never had to make it on her own, and I'm not sure she could. They're both very intelligent, but just... yeah; hard to explain unless you know someone like that. Now that I look through a new lens I think my mother is in the same boat and that's why she has stayed unemployed and married almost non-stop since leaving her parent's house, with only a handful of brief lapses over the years.

I have never felt disadvantaged, at least not like they are, but neither have I ever felt "normal." I think I'm "lightly touched" or something . Sorry for the totally non-clinical wording, but I claim amnesty on the grounds that I have no diagnosis and don't need one. I've had enough time to figure out what I am, and whether or not that's "Autistic" isn't that important. I know what I'm capable of and what I'm not capable of, and I've found a life and a career that is a good match for my strengths and weaknesses. I think that is one of the highest of life goals for anyone, no matter what words are used to describe them, so I am content. I seek no diagnosis. But, like anyone, I do seek the company of people I can relate to, and I find more of them here than anywhere else, so I wonder if that's because I'm in a room full of Autistic people (or "Autistic" or whatever word you choose).

 

Most engineering brains are what's called "Autistic" today because "on the spectrum" can mean anything.

 

Most engineering brains are what's called "Autistic" today because "on the spectrum" can mean anything.

I don't disagree but I try to not say things like that because I feel that it detracts from the reality of the struggles others face. Not your fault or mine, we aren't the ones making the definitions or diluting them. I wish "they" wouldn't lump such a wide "spectrum" into one word.

I think you and I need to stop having discussions that hinge on the definition of loosely defined words .

I love that clip. I sent it to my hiring manager in response to being asked about what qualifications I was looking for when I was trying to get some technicians hired.

I won't outright self-diagnose Autism, but "the knack?" 100%.

 

I'm pretty sure that I am nowhere near the spectrum. I have been known to hang out on the HF and VHF bands. Does that qualify?

 

I hate the trend for labeling everyone and assigning disorders to every personality quirk.

Bob

 

Regardless of what the experts have to say, I believe that there is no "normal" person.
We all have a quirk and a knack. We ought to celebrate each one of us as we are. We are all special.

 

We all have a quirk and a knack. We ought to celebrate each one of us as we are. We are all special.

I almost wrote the same thing, but then I thought of how angry I am at certain segments if the population right now, and decided it was disingenuous. (not accusing you of same)

Bob

 

@strantor, unfortunately, Autism has become politicized. One of our sons has a diagnosis of Autism. He is exceptionally intelligent, caring, and capable of many things but utterly incapable of others. I am not just praising him because I am his father, objectively, he has these qualities. He is an autodidact of the highest order and thanks to the Internet he has the functional equivalent of Bachelor’s degrees in a number of areas (in terms of knowledge of the subject’s content).

Trouble is, ”Autism” is such a broad thing it is almost meaningless in understanding him. If you say “he’s Autisitic” it adds almost nothing to understanding who he is. The idea of a “spectrum” has been misunderstood by some well-meaning peple and exploited by some of less good will. Autism is now a combination of fashion and business.

Profoundly Autistic people can be clearly delimited but as you move along the putative “spectrum” this becomes less and less true. One of the reasons for my son’s diagnosis is a change in the criteria for it. In the past he would have been suffering some other disorder.

In any case, I do think the idea of neurotypical is useful though it is often abused. Rather than being hurled defensively as an epithet by people who find themselves at odds with the ”normal” way of thinking and perceiving, it’s value lies in a genuine description of something we can find in the world.

Most people will find themselves in the couple of standard deviations on each side of the center of neurotypical but there are a significant number who will live in the ends, and even under the tails. Not in percentages but in absolute numbers. I think that thanks to the Internet those people are finding each other and realizing that while they are not like most people nearby around them, they have peers that share their way of interacting with the world. This leads to a desire to assert that they are “OK” the way they are, and they are, but the will still face challenges in a world that expects the “normal”.

I am going to end here because while I haven’t really been able to fully elucidate my point, doing so would take many times this much text and I suspect it will already remain mostly unreat.

 

each disease can be realized as accumulation and consequence of a sort of mental,enviromental and gentic roots.
about Autism i've not researched that much,but for ALS i found some strange reasons,
for example,people who have passed their military service are known as more prone to ALS disease.
and it's beacuase they'd be more subjected to mechanical and mental shocks during service.
for Autism ,mental roots would be the most important reasons.and yep...engineers are more autistic beacuse they mostly have to deal with soleless things like computer,screens,devices,etc than lives like the other humans and nature.

 

I hate the trend for labeling everyone and assigning disorders to every personality quirk.

Bob

Regardless of what the experts have to say, I believe that there is no "normal" person.
We all have a quirk and a knack. We ought to celebrate each one of us as we are. We are all special.

I agree to a point but not all the way. At some point a personality quirk stops being a personality quirk and starts being a disorder. Where is that line? That seems to me like the one thing that's debatable and the sole opportunity for arguments like yours to be valid. I think the "spectrum" is too wide, too inclusive. "The knack" I think actually falls within the spectrum and it shouldn't. I think if a personality quirk impairs your ability to live independently then it's a disorder, and to rob it of a name is to rob those afflicted with it of an avenue to getting help.

OTOH I also understand the value of naming a "thing" (disorder/quirk/whatever) before it becomes crippling. Like dwarfism. It's easy for us all to get on the same page about that because your can look at a person and see dwarfism. It would be a bit silly to look at a 3ft tall adult and argue that there's no dwarfism and they're just at the end of the bell curve of height. I see Autism (when defined as a spectrum) as being equivalent. Within the group of people who have it but aren't totally crippled by it, you might not be able to plainly see it, but that doesn't make it fiction.

I think it would be useful to start over with Autism, ADHD, and few others, create all new names for them, stop defining them as spectrum disorders, and make it so that the lines are clearly drawn to where people with extreme (but not impairing) quirks can have a group to claim admission to (if they so choose) without diluting the definition of more serious conditions that leave another group of people unable to function on their own.

 

each disease can be realized as accumulation and consequence of a sort of mental,enviromental and gentic roots.
about Autism i've not researched that much,but for ALS i found some strange reasons,
for example,people who have passed their military service are known as more prone to ALS disease.
and it's beacuase they'd be more subjected to mechanical and mental shocks during service.
for Autism ,mental roots would be the most important reasons.and yep...engineers are more autistic beacuse they mostly have to deal with soleless things like computer,screens,devices,etc than lives like the other humans and nature.

What environmental conditions cause dwarfism and what determines the final shrink ratio of a normal adult who was exposed to these conditions and became a dwarf?

</sarcasm>

Could it be instead that "more autistic people become engineers beacuse they prefer to deal with soleless things like computer,screens,devices,etc than lives like the other humans and nature, because they understand them better"

That is the more likely causality in my opinion.

 

What environmental conditions cause dwarfism and what determines the final shrink ratio of a normal adult who was exposed to these conditions and became a dwarf?

</sarcasm>

Could it be instead that "more autistic people become engineers beacuse they prefer to deal with soleless things like computer,screens,devices,etc than lives like the other humans and nature, because they understand them better"

That is the more likely causality in my opinion.

dwarfism in early ages is absolutely due to genetic reasons,but in adults i think the main reason is the same as causes for Lordosis,that is known as spongy property of bone structure that shrinks the body size over aging.
enviromental conditions, like diet and exercitation just can accelerate or slow the natural process.
by the way that,many genetical roots could be one day enviromental imposition as Darwinian studies has shown.

 

@strantor, unfortunately, Autism has become politicized. One of our sons has a diagnosis of Autism. He is exceptionally intelligent, caring, and capable of many things but utterly incapable of others. I am not just praising him because I am his father, objectively, he has these qualities. He is an autodidact of the highest order and thanks to the Internet he has the functional equivalent of Bachelor’s degrees in a number of areas (in terms of knowledge of the subject’s content).

One of my sons also has a diagnosis of Autism. Here is a short clip of some typical evals.


He's doing pretty good now but is currently on SSI disability. These types of Autistic disorders are very real and have a huge negative effect on the person.

 

One of my sons also has a diagnosis of Autism. Here is a short clip of some typical evals.
View attachment 248409

He's doing pretty good now but is currently on SSI disability. These types of Autistic disorders are very real and have a huge negative effect on the person.

Yes, and yet other very different manifestations of "Autism" are grouped with this. My son has no problems with reading, math, communication (not counting socially inappropriate things which make him seem impolite). He does have sensory issues, which can be debilitating. He might be called "high functioning Autistic" but frankly, I don't think anyone knows enough about this things to claim a spectrum. It is my observation that a spectrum which implies a one dimensional line on which one could lie doesn't have nearly enough degrees of freedom to describe the reality of the differences between the "neurotypical" people and those who aren't that at all.

 

One of my sons also has a diagnosis of Autism. Here is a short clip of some typical evals.
View attachment 248409

He's doing pretty good now but is currently on SSI disability. These types of Autistic disorders are very real and have a huge negative effect on the person.

That is a very personal thing to share and I appreciate you sharing it for the sake of this discussion. I made a bad assumption/interpretation of your meaning in your first reply. I did not realize this was so close to home for you.

Do you also have a diagnosis of autism? Or symptoms of it? Apart from "the knack?" Feel free to ignore those questions, you've shared a lot already, but I'm really curious. Part of my interest in this topic is how it runs in families. Some research indicates it is passed down mostly from the father.

https://www.science.org/news/2018/04/autistic-children-may-inherit-dna-mutations-their-fathers

 

Do you also have a diagnosis of autism? Or symptoms of it? Apart from "the knack?" Feel free to ignore those questions, you've shared a lot already, but I'm really curious. Part of my interest in this topic is how it runs in families. Some research indicates it is passed down mostly from the father.

https://www.science.org/news/2018/04/autistic-children-may-inherit-dna-mutations-their-fathers

@Yaakov I extend the same question to you, if you're willing to answer.

EDIT: after re-reading your previous replies I think I can predict your answer wouldn't be a solid yes or no, so let me ask more specifically, do you have any significant challenges (or gifts) related to symptoms commonly ascribed to autism

 

Depending on who is doing the scoring I might even be on the spectrum. I have poor social skills and certainly have a knack for many engineering type things. In my school days I excelled in math and science but did poorly in every language related course. I can be very OCD in many ways. However, I have never been considered by my myself or anyone else as being Autistic. I believe that proves nothing. Just saying. The main reason for this is because the word was never in my vocabulary and I was never aware of the condition until I saw the movie "Rain Man" starring Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise.

 

Depending on who is doing the scoring I might even be on the spectrum. I have poor social skills and certainly have a knack for many engineering type things. In my school days I excelled in math and science but did poorly in every language related course. I can be very OCD in many ways. However, I have never been considered by my myself or anyone else as being Autistic. I believe that proves nothing. Just saying. The main reason for this is because the word was never in my vocabulary and I was never aware of the condition until I saw the movie "Rain Man" starring Dustin Hoffman and Tom Cruise.

I know what you mean, and I was in the same boat* until the revelation about my siblings, and after connecting the dots was a little more open to considering the possibility.

*although I have been told by a handful of people that they thought I was on the spectrum. One such event happened recently, by my boss who has a college-aged Autistic son (all the way Autistic, probably won't be able to live alone). He brought it up like it was an obvious fact that we were both aware of. I had just pointed out a handful of flaws in something he designed and he replied something to the effect of "I like having people on my team who are on the spectrum, because nobody else will be as honest with me." To have him say that to me given the vast amount of first-hand experience that he has on the topic, well it's part of what rekindled my interest in this topic and led to this thread.

 

@Yaakov I extend the same question to you, if you're willing to answer.

EDIT: after re-reading your previous replies I think I can predict your answer wouldn't be a solid yes or no, so let me ask more specifically, do you have any significant challenges (or gifts) related to symptoms commonly ascribed to autism

I have some issue with sensory overload, like my son. I have problems that are classically ADHD and have had all my life. It's something that I am finally beginning to address in my old(er) age and it is not easy because it is wrapped up in my self image and feelings of self worth.

ADHD can be a double-edged sword. I can do things that few people I have met can do but I also can't do things that most people I have met can do. Things that people consider trivial and ordinary can be very hard for me while things other people consider extremely difficult are not.

This has to do with focus (oddly in both positive and negative ways), uninteresting activities (sometimes I simply can't do them, and what that means is almost impossible to communicate, I literally just can't) and also in having an excessively complicated mental life with many layers of heuristics and theories that effectively allow me to do things but appear obscure and inaccessible to most other people.

None of these things is Autism-like though. My one shared characteristic there is the sensory sensitivity which, until it was clear my son had the problem, I had never recognized even though it has affected me my whole life, sometimes profoundly.

 

That is a very personal thing to share and I appreciate you sharing it for the sake of this discussion. I made a bad assumption/interpretation of your meaning in your first reply. I did not realize this was so close to home for you.

Do you also have a diagnosis of autism? Or symptoms of it? Apart from "the knack?" Feel free to ignore those questions, you've shared a lot already, but I'm really curious. Part of my interest in this topic is how it runs in families. Some research indicates it is passed down mostly from the father.

https://www.science.org/news/2018/04/autistic-children-may-inherit-dna-mutations-their-fathers

No. I've been through the psych eval ringer a couple of times for some very sensitive positions early in life. I was in the PRP program for a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_Reliability_Program