A change to the Terms of Service here?

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,400
I just saw a marine thread closed.

Per @Bill_Marsden, in his role as Moderator:
"We are process of changing the rules here, but we did not allow discussion of transportation vehicles."

That's demonstrably false. We DID allow all manner of transportation discussion as long as it wasn't about "Automotive modifications" as still written in the ToS.

There is apparently a new, secret and hidden Terms of Service that none of us are privy to - or agreed to - except for maybe the moderators. This is unacceptable.

The owners are free to change the rules around here, but we participants only agreed to abide by the WRITTEN rules. I accept NO change to the rules that is not documented.
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
6,640
It is not that insidious. A request was made for clarification on the restriction on discussing automotive modifications and the like and the answer was that this should include water vehicles among other things. A note was made to update the TOS, which takes some time to occur. That's all there is to it.
 

DerStrom8

Joined Feb 20, 2011
2,390
It has been my impression ever since I joined in 2011 that ANY motor vehicle (whether it be a motorcycle, a motorboat, an ATV, etc) are all off-limits for the same reason that automotive modifications are off-limits--There are too many risks to health and safety, and some modifications could actually break the law. I think the moderators and site owners have made that very clear over the years, and it should be common knowledge by now (except to newbies, of course).

That being said, it would be good if the TOS were reworded to say this, rather than just mentioning automotive modifications.
 

tshuck

Joined Oct 18, 2012
3,534
They are debating what the changes should be (if any).

Note that the thread you reference was closed due to necroposting, not because it's about boats.

In regards to the statement about transport vehicles being off limits, this hasn't been the case in the past and may have just been a slip of the... finger, I suppose. It would be wise to seek clarification before the rejection of no such proposed rule change.
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
22,170
Right new this site is in the middle of change. Very disconcerting, myself included.

All I can say is give us a chance to sort thing out. I have no real power, except in that I am known.
 

Hypatia's Protege

Joined Mar 1, 2015
3,226
A request was made for clarification on the restriction on discussing automotive modifications and the like and the answer was that this should include water vehicles among other things.
Integrity demands my confession that said 'request for clarification' was my own:oops:
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/policy-clarification-please.111683/

Please understand that it was not my intent to change or dispute policy!...

Although, by dint of 'tradition', "motor vehicle" may safely be assumed to mean: "a vehicle intended for operation upon a motorway (AKA 'highway')", the term 'automotive' is IMO, ambiguous and reasonably applicable to any self-propelled machine including, so it seemed, such ubiquitous conveyances as aircraft and (fuel) powered watercraft... Then too I wondered, owing to their vehicular 'taxonomy', about certain construction, agricultural and recreational machinery.

As a new member I had (and have) no desire 'start off on the wrong foot' as it were... I, for instance, was often uncomfortable discussing marine wiring with @sdowney717 (among others) not knowing where the lines were drawn...

Again, I sincerely apologize that my well meaning, IMO responsible, request should have sparked the present uproar...

Sincerely
HP
 
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tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
The owners are free to change the rules around here, but we participants only agreed to abide by the WRITTEN rules. I accept NO change to the rules that is not documented.
The new unwritten rule is if it can move it's an automobile.

If it uses 12 volt power it may be used in a automobile so its off limits now.

If it uses 5 volt power it could be powered by a automotive type USB power adapter thus is too now considered an automobile or automotive accessory as well.

If it can be powered by AC power it can be plugged into a automotive power converter and by default alo is now off limits because it can now be associated with automobile use.

If it's a computer related like a laptop or or PC that can be powered either by automotive type power adapter or power inverter it's now an automobile as well.

'Welcome to AAC. We define everything as an automobile or a potential automobile accessory whether specified or not and thus can not be discussed here for safety or liability reasons. Now bugger off and have a nice day!' :)
 
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djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
6,949
As Bill stated, the site is going through a change. IMHO, a perfectly normal case of reframing that occurs several times in the lifetime of any organization. In fact, without this process, the organization may become ill.

So you won't hear me project getting out of Dodge. You won't hear me complain (although I may have feedback). You won't hear me extoll the virtues of orange nor the value of new content.

I'll read quietly, participate mostly as I have done in the past. I'll be patiently observing, let the changes mature, and see what comes out the other side.

I guess the only comment that I'll make, is that I'll do what I do, drama-free. And perhaps that is not a bad thing.
 

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,210
I enjoy TCM. He pokes it with a stick and I enjoy the humor. This one seems a bit much, but it goes with the territory.
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
4,437
The new unwritten rule is if it can move it's an automobile.

If it uses 12 volt power it may be used in a automobile so its off limits now.

If it uses 5 volt power it could be powered by a automotive type USB power adapter thus is too now considered an automobile or automotive accessory as well.

If it can be powered by AC power it can be plugged into a automotive power converter and by default alo is now off limits because it can now be associated with automobile use.

If it's a computer related like a laptop or or PC that can be powered either by automotive type power adapter or power inverter it's now an automobile as well.

'Welcome to AAC. We define everything as an automobile or a potential automobile accessory whether specified or not and thus can not be discussed here for safety or liability reasons. Now bugger off and have a nice day!' :)
Actually, @tcmtech, these rules are superior in that they are defined.

My issue is that the mods recently appear to have been given four orders:

1. Interpretation of rules is at your own discretion.
2. Make up additional rules as you go along.
3. If it looks doubtful, delete it.
4. We'll discuss and deal with the repercussions later.

Their behavior has changed, yet no one has admitted so, or why.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
Wait a minute that's just ETO's old rule set from before they crashed and burned and needed to rework their rules and moderation system. :oops:

Is the new AAC management digging through other forums old trash looking for new ideas? o_O
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
10,481
It is not that insidious. A request was made for clarification on the restriction on discussing automotive modifications and the like and the answer was that this should include water vehicles among other things. A note was made to update the TOS, which takes some time to occur. That's all there is to it.
I am sure you must be aware of this seminal decision by the SCOTUS: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/283/25/case.html

Of course, various laws were adjusted to fit that decision, but it remains that aircraft and other modes of transportation are not motor vehicles, unless the applicable laws have been modified to fit that decision. The SCOTUS rarely completely reverses a decision. If you know of that reversal, please provide the citation. Otherwise, you might say, lucky thief.

Are we left just to guess what you mean my automobiles? Is washing my new car a modification?

John
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
tcm,

Why you using that superfine 40 grit paper when you can get 6 grit? Then you can get down to the real nitty grit(ty). :D
I leave the real abrasive personality action to my wife. On her bad days she is the equivalent to a roadway planer/pulverizer. :eek:
 
I am sure you must be aware of this seminal decision by the SCOTUS: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/283/25/case.html

Of course, various laws were adjusted to fit that decision, but it remains that aircraft and other modes of transportation are not motor vehicles, unless the applicable laws have been modified to fit that decision. The SCOTUS rarely completely reverses a decision. If you know of that reversal, please provide the citation. Otherwise, you might say, lucky thief.

Are we left just to guess what you mean my automobiles? Is washing my new car a modification?

John
Indeed! -- Not to go etymological on y'all howbeit the 'motor' in the term 'motor vehicle' referrers to said machine's intended operation upon motorways --- Hence a human-powered bicycle is a 'motor vehicle' while 747s, salvage tugs and locomotives are noto_O -- language (and, so it would seem, law) are curious phenomena indeed!:D

Sadly, inasmuch as the 'key term' in the TOS is 'automotive', it seems we're out of luck... :(

Best regards
HP
 
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Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,400
Right new this site is in the middle of change. Very disconcerting, myself included.

All I can say is give us a chance to sort thing out. I have no real power, except in that I am known.
Just to be clear, I appreciate your predicament and was in no way singling you out for closing the thread I linked.

What I don't understand is the lack of "change management" I see. It's not just unprofessional, it's just plain rude. Few care if the rules change, within reason. But the big-boy way to manage a change, whether to the ToS or the format, is to alert everyone a change is coming, execute the change by putting it in writing, then alert everyone again the change has been completed. Anyone that has ever held a job knows that if it isn't written down, it didn't happen.

Pulling stunts like we've seen around here lately in a corporate environment would get you walked to your car on Friday afternoon with your possessions in a box.
 

Lestraveled

Joined May 19, 2014
1,946
Is it ethical to issue speeding tickets on a road that has had the speed limit lowered, but the speed limit signs have not been changed yet?? That appears to be the case here at AAC. I am not concerned that the limits have changed, but I am concerned that reasonable procedures for these types of changes, have not been followed.
 
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