Why we love automotive electronics

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,866
Love bites from removing a O2 sensor electrical connector between the engine and firewall.

KeepItSimpleStupid

Joined Mar 4, 2014
4,371
Familiar with that issue. I know it was hard when i did one, but I have no idea how knicked up i got. I had trouble getting the connector off.

AlbertHall

Joined Jun 4, 2014
10,776
Yeah, if it's not sharp, it's hot.

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,866
Familiar with that issue. I know it was hard when i did one, but I have no idea how knicked up i got. I had trouble getting the connector off.
It almost looks like someone intentionally decided to make it bad on the Honda Pilot. Easy maintainability was not a engineering concern. When I design something for work I always include easy maintainability as a major point in the specification.

djsfantasi

Joined Apr 11, 2010
7,209
I agree re: easy maintainability. But environmental constraints come first. I.e., physical space available in an engine compartment.

When building an animatronic, I always consider how a replacement of a component will be done. That having been said - I’ve never had to replace a component. You know that the first component to fail will be the one for which I decided it would never fail.

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,866
I agree re: easy maintainability. But environmental constraints come first. I.e., physical space available in an engine compartment.

When building an animatronic, I always consider how a replacement of a component will be done. That having been said - I’ve never had to replace a component. You know that the first component to fail will be the one for which I decided it would never fail.
The engine ECU system was obviously designed to be built independently of the car with physical space constraints but little thought was given IMO to the actual position for easy access (without playing 'twister' across the engine compartment) within that limited space to a sensor with a limited life time and high failure rate in normal usage.

It's not impossible or even that hard.
https://jalopnik.com/the-ten-easiest-modern-cars-to-work-on-1730706616
https://jalopnik.com/the-ten-hardest-cars-to-work-on-1578975283

Hymie

Joined Mar 30, 2018
924
Modern cars are not designed to be messed with by joe-public – that way franchise garages can make their money charging a premium for their services.

The O2 sensor (post cat) on my Mini Countryman (BMW) requires a specialist tool for removal. Recently the alternator started over-charging; replacement requires removal of the front bodywork of the vehicle. Replacement of the battery also involves removal of vehicle bodywork and proprietary software/OBD connection to reset the vehicle electrics.

On the plus side, the remote fob is fitted with a rechargeable battery which is recharged wirelessly when docked in its holder.

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
7,866
Modern cars are not designed to be messed with by joe-public – that way franchise garages can make their money charging a premium for their services.

The O2 sensor (post cat) on my Mini Countryman (BMW) requires a specialist tool for removal. Recently the alternator started over-charging; replacement requires removal of the front bodywork of the vehicle. Replacement of the battery also involves removal of vehicle bodywork and proprietary software/OBD connection to reset the vehicle electrics.

On the plus side, the remote fob is fitted with a rechargeable battery which is recharged wirelessly when docked in its holder.
I use a external keep-alive battery when replacing the battery in modern cars. A simple diode isolated 9V battery into a power port works for short periods.

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
10,931
Modern cars are not designed to be messed with by joe-public – that way franchise garages can make their money charging a premium for their services.
Or fake it and charge anyway. Case on point. I have a 2007 Ford F150 with the 5.4L V-8 Triton engine. The spark plugs have been the subject of lawsuits, as they were originally 3-piece and break off in the cylinders. That is not good. Some people have had to remove the heads to do their first change. (Here's one of umpteen Google hits about them: http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/1507-replacing-troublesome-ford-triton-54l-v8-spark-plugs/ ) My local Ford dealer wanted $1000 + time if any broke. I figured that was the wrong incentive. I did mine last Summer, followed all TSB's, and took it slow. Got all 8 out without a single breakage. I was even able to torque the #4 (right rear, pretty much under the dash, need a mirror to see it, hardest one) to factory spec plus a little. I saved the old ones as a monument. Of course, a week in my shop doesn't cost me$100/hour.

I was talking to a buddy who is an actual Ford auto mechanic about the gyrations needed for #4. Query: Have you ever seen a car come in with 7 newer plugs and one of the factor originals on #4. He nodded, smiled, and agreed. The engine will usually run either way.

As for build to repair, as opposed to right to repair, like the others, whenever I put something together, I am always conscious of the need to get to parts later.

Edit: It helps to know a young woman. Their arms will reach were ours have never gone before. Needed that once for an annual inspection.

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,500
It helps to know a young woman. Their arms will reach were ours have never gone before. Needed that once for an annual inspection.
Are we still talking about cars?

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
10,931
I was referring to another form of conveyance. But the principle still applies.

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
7,214
Not to veer off topic, but I had to replace the entire passenger side view mirror assembly of my Ford Freestar minivan because I accidentally broke the stupid glass. And on top of that, it was extremely difficult to dismount the old assembly and install the new one. I had to completely remove the door's interior panel just to reach three idiotic nuts that attach the moronic thing to the God-darned door! ... and on top of that, I accidentally dropped one of the nuts and it fell inside the cavity formed by the door's sheet metal assembly ... in the end I just gave up and made sure that two nuts worked as good as one ... stupid thing...

KeepItSimpleStupid

Joined Mar 4, 2014
4,371
At least you didn't have to replace the whole door.

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
7,214
At least you didn't have to replace the whole door.

Sensacell

Joined Jun 19, 2012
2,673
Rented a Kawasaki Versys 650 for a bike trip, day 2, one of the plugs fouls and now it's puffing away on one cylinder.
Called the bike shop and they casually say: "just take it to the nearest shop and have them change it"
I did, they would not touch it. Had to ride back 300 Km on one cylinder.

Once I got home, I googled the repair and realized why:

Total insanity.

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,500
Total insanity.
Holy crap, no kidding. My van had a transverse V6, so the rear 3 plugs were quite a challenge. I had to remove the windshield wipers, as I recall, and a bunch of other stuff. Shops supposedly would drop the engine instead to save time. Good thing the plugs lasted 100k miles.

KeepItSimpleStupid

Joined Mar 4, 2014
4,371
I didn;t watch it all, but the guy does things nicely.
I don't think I could handle a "bunch of bolts" and know where they all go.
No anti-seize on the plug threads,

One car of my parents', I had to take the wheel off to change the oil filter. Annoying, but not too bad.

BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,938
I had heard of dropping an engine to change a starter in some foreign trucks, and have seen expensive labor on van plugs......but never anything like that.

AlbertHall

Joined Jun 4, 2014
10,776
This stuff isn't restricted to automotive stuff. I repaired a bread maker which wouldn't knead. There was voltage on the wires to the motor but open circuit between them so I need to get at the motor. This turned out to be a major dismantling job - took about an hour. Then I get the motor out and remove the outer sleeve and can immediately see the problem. The wires from the outer terminals to the actual motor are made into small coils (perhaps 6 turns) presumably for interference suppression and on one of them the wire is broken. It is SOLID CORE wire! Replaced both coils with stranded wire and then it was just another hour putting all the bits back together.

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
11,796
A simple diode isolated 9V battery into a power port works for short periods.
I've often wondered if you could get away with that. Nice to hear you can. How short is short? What is a typical modern car's standby current draw?