Who Killed the Electric Car?!

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
When I used the term fuel cell, I was not limiting it to hydrogen as the fuel. Can't one consider a fuel cell as simply a type of non-rechargeable/non-reversible battery in which one of both "electrodes" is easily or continuously replaced? In fact, Wikipedia defines the zinc-air battery as both a battery and a fuel cell.

Now, if the zinc were replaced with something else that is easily oxidized (like methanol), it would still be a battery and a fuel cell.

I believe development of batteries and fuel cells can and should continue on simultaneously. At present, fuel cells seem to have the advantage of producing less toxic by-products and/or using more readily available electron donors.

John
 
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Audioguru

Joined Dec 20, 2007
11,248
The electric car is alive in parts of Canada.
The ZENN (Zero Emissions No Noise) car is made in Canada and two provinces allow it to be driven on the steets. It is a two-persons golf cart with a range of 45km, a top speed of 45km/hr and charges all night long.

How will the police keep the toy from driving on the highways?
 

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Thread Starter

scubasteve_911

Joined Dec 27, 2007
1,203
Audioguru,

'Solutions' like that make the idea of an all-electric vehicle sound ridiculous, where it is not. As mentioned, the proof is in the EV1. These vehicles worked well(customers loved them), were easy to maintain (they interviewed an EV1 tech) and didn't cost a fortune.

Steve
 

Audioguru

Joined Dec 20, 2007
11,248
The tiny ZENN car costs only(?) $16,000US. It is a very expensive unsafe golf cart.

General Motors has a new electric car coming and a new (old from Europe) car if they last long enough. They will join Chrysler? GenChry? Gencry? Crygen?
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,415
Thing I think a lot of people are missing is GM is in serious trouble, for decisions like these and more. They might not survive their bad management.
 

jut

Joined Aug 25, 2007
224
I think GM trying to make an EV is like a type writer company making a computer. Well not entirely b/c of the EV1. But still, the EV1 contradicts gas cars in terms of fuel, replacement parts, and service. All of which costs much less!

EVs are very cool, but the roadways are already over capacity in cities and suburbs. I'm more excited about the prospect of an EM - electric motorcycle. It takes care of the 2nd worst problem facing EVs besides batteries; weight! A company in Oregon is due out with an EM next year. It's $12k (Li batteries) with sub standard performance. But I'm crossing my fingers hoping the cost will come down in a few years.
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,415
All well and good, but if you have a family, motorcycles don't cut it. The fact that every maniac wants to run you over is besides the fact.

I get very agrivated at greenies who advocate the bus, without having a clue. Everytime I was forced to take the bus it took an hour or more to do what a car would have done in 10 minutes.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
I think GM trying to make an EV is like a type writer company making a computer.
Sounds like a formula for success. IBM, a typewriter company, invented the PC that quickly eclipsed Apple.

If GM can come even close to that success, we will all be driving EVs in the next 5 years.

John
 

Thread Starter

scubasteve_911

Joined Dec 27, 2007
1,203
Hearing about the electric motorcycle reminds me of a really amusing memory..

There is/was this bike called the killacycle, which is an extremely fast electric race bike. The owner was demonstrating it in a public area and ended up crashing into a parked car about 100 feet away because it was so fast he didn't have time to react.

It wasn't really funny he crashed, but it was funny that he did design the bike and should have known it's capabilities. The other funny part was the name "Killa-cycle", and was saying how it was the most dangerous motorsport in kind of a boasty way.

Steve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfVX71YqPuQ
 

jut

Joined Aug 25, 2007
224
Hearing about the electric motorcycle reminds me of a really amusing memory..
Yep that's a classic. In that interview, and it others I've seen online, the designer always seems to be rather cocky. I have a feeling he's feeling a little more humbled nowadays.
 

jut

Joined Aug 25, 2007
224
All well and good, but if you have a family, motorcycles don't cut it. The fact that every maniac wants to run you over is besides the fact.
Of course a motorcycle won't work for a family. But what about the average commuter who drives to work alone. Imagine how much less congestion, noise, pollution there would be if many people rode EMs. Of course this will probably never happen b/c people are so used to the comforts of a car.


Everytime I was forced to take the bus it took an hour or more to do what a car would have done in 10 minutes.
I have that view about cars here in the bay area (CA). If I had to take a car to my night class it would take 30 minutes. My motorcycle takes about 10 minutes.

As far a buses go, they're worse than cars, as you said. And to make matters worse they are usually way off schedule.
 

beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
There is a classic B&W movie of "1984" where the Thought Police ride silent electric motorcycles. Kinda creepy.

Better build power plants - I don't think there's enough generating capacity to charge all that many electric cars every night. Takes a lot of watts to run down the road. Especially when you add in loads like heat and lights.
 

jut

Joined Aug 25, 2007
224
Better build power plants - I don't think there's enough generating capacity to charge all that many electric cars every night. Takes a lot of watts to run down the road. Especially when you add in loads like heat and lights.

Some of these EV companies claim to be making a car that can charge in something like 10 minutes. Zenn with their enigmatic EESTOR battery. And Pheonix motors with their Altairnano battery. They both claim ranges of about 150-200 miles with a ~30 kWh battery pack. If it's to be charged in 10 minutes at, let's say, 240 V, we're talking about 900 Amps! Ooowee that's some juice. Not sure how that's going to be implemented.:confused:

In any case, it will be interesting to see what power source will dominate in the future. My guess is nuclear. Who knows, maybe fusion instead of fission. The NIF is going to fire up their big fusion experiment in a few months.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
200 miles using 30 kWH? Presumably, that is with the wind in Nebraska on a dry, flat road. If one averages 30 mph, that is almost 7h of driving at 4.3 kW per hour. That is about 5.8 HP, or about the power of my snow blower, which can barely make 3 mph in light snow.

John
 

Thread Starter

scubasteve_911

Joined Dec 27, 2007
1,203
I agree, there needs to be more power generating capacity. Although, we can agree, charging mostly would be done in the evening, which is good from a power-loading point of view.

We need more nuclear power plants... It would also be nice to be able to have more geothermal energy too, there is so much of it just sitting down there.

Steve
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,415
This planet is awash in energy, we just have to figure out how to use it all.

I liked this story, hope something comes from it...

http://www.physorg.com/news143380037.html

One of the classic problems is people who think one solution will fit all, which any intelligent observer will know is false. I've chatted with my share of environmentalists that seem to hold this view. Fact is, unless we (and everyone else) become a faciest state taint gonna happen. Cars in particular aren't going away, though they will evolve.
 
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