Transistor Analysis with Only RsubE

LvW

Joined Jun 13, 2013
2,026
Most of your examples do not use the voltage-controlled model for the BJT (its transconductance).
Thank you for you answer - but there remains something to be clarified.
I am afraid there is a misunderstanding. I did not speak about MODELS. My arguments are based on theoretical (physical) explaantions, observations and design rules.

For example, saturation may be defined by voltages, but to insure saturation, the base current is typically made 1/10th of the maximum collector current.
Yes - I agree. Per design we make the base resistor Rb between the switching voltage source Vs such that the current Ib=(Vs-Vbe)/Rb is app. Ic/10. However, is THIS an indication for current control?
I do not think so - this current Ib=Ic/10 is just an INDICATION of the saturation state (because the B-C pn junction is open) but not the cause of saturation!
The base-current may be a "byproduct" of the transistor operation but never-the-less it is stated in all BJT data sheets, appears in its characteristic curves, and is used in the design of BJT circuits.
Yes - no doubt about this. The current Ib does exist and - as one of the characteristic transistor parameters - it appears in the data sheets. And yes - we use it in the design of BJT circuits because it is a physically real quantity.
Did I deny this fact? However, does this automatically mean that Ib is a controlling patameter?
I don' understand you comment about Class AB or B amplifiers.
You still use the same Vbe value when the transistor is conducting.
Let me ask you: What is the reason for choosing class-AB or class-B operation? Answer: Less current (better efficiency).
How do we bias the BJT in this case? Answer: With a smaller Vbe value (perhaps 0.1 Volts). Do we select any particular base current? No, we know that for lower Vbe values the Ic=f(Vbe) curve gives us a collector current as low as we want.
Hence, we are exploiting the knowledge about voltage control, don`t we?
So how do you discriminate?
Is it, that as long as a current-source has a more-than-zero input impedance, it's a voltage controlled device(?).
No - I do not look at the input impedance. I rely on theoretical explanations and practical observations.
However, as far as the input impedance Zin is concerned - the behaviour of Zin for the two cases with/without feedback is very interesting.
From system theory we know that Zin goes high when the feedback signal is a VOLTAGE (in this case Ve). As a result Vbe=Vb-Ve goes down and we have the desired negative feedback effect. The base current also goes down - a secondary effect!
A clear indication that the BJT is PHYSICALLY controlled by a voltage (again: I do not discuss models here).
We know that Zin goes high for RE-feedback.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
38,503
I do not discuss models here
The we have nothing further to discuss, since I use a transistor model, not solid-state theory when I do a design (although the simulations I do use do fairly accurately model the theory).
A model does not have to address how the device works in theory, only in practice.
 

LvW

Joined Jun 13, 2013
2,026
The we have nothing further to discuss, since I use a transistor model, not solid-state theory when I do a design (although the simulations I do use do fairly accurately model the theory).
A model does not have to address how the device works in theory, only in practice.
OK - in this case I must realize that there was a misunderstanding.
I did not want to discuss models. I was of the opinion that we were trying to find a common understanding concerning the real (physical) behavior of bipolar transistors. My error, sorry.
 
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crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
38,503
I was of the opinion that we were trying to find a common understanding concerning the real (physical) behavior of bipolar transistors.
No I understand the solid-state theory, and understand that it does not show current control.
 
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