# To be Electricuted or not to be

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#### Insignificantinvisiblespo

Joined Nov 7, 2021
30
quasi-static ness give you a easier theoretical path from A to B in thermodynamics so you can track energy flows. For your electrical charged plate problem, a static situation indicator primarily means a lack of magnetic fields because of no moving charges. A body touching the circuit moves that into the dynamic realm as charges move to neutralize charge imbalances, generate magnetic fields in concert with electric fields to transfer energy. That will eventually become a static condition again if there is not a path for current electricity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasistatic_process
I see. I was relating quasi-static to slow moving electrons, cause i assumed there would be no absolute static situation, considering that would take a temperature lower than thought possible to achieve.

#### nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
9,438
I see. I was relating quasi-static to slow moving electrons, cause i assumed there would be no absolute static situation, considering that would take a temperature lower than thought possible to achieve.
The best thing you can do is to forget physical electrons as little balls moving as electrical energy carriers.

#### Insignificantinvisiblespo

Joined Nov 7, 2021
30
The best thing you can do is to forget physical electrons as little balls moving as electrical energy carriers.
You said "a static situation indicator primarily means a lack of magnetic fields because of no moving charges" i pointed out, in reality, electrons move so long as they are above absolute zero, therfore they would have a magnetic field, because they exist in the same environmental factors as we do, and be considered dynamic. you also brought up quasi-static relating to thermodynamics and now are saying to think electrons dont carry energy, than why bring up thermodynamics? Sheesh...

#### MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
25,919
Did anyone ever say that thermodynamics, quantum mechanics and general relativity was simple?

#### Insignificantinvisiblespo

Joined Nov 7, 2021
30
Did anyone ever say that thermodynamics, quantum mechanics and general relativity was simple?

#### nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
9,438
You said "a static situation indicator primarily means a lack of magnetic fields because of no moving charges" i pointed out, in reality, electrons move so long as they are above absolute zero, therfore they would have a magnetic field, because they exist in the same environmental factors as we do, and be considered dynamic. you also brought up quasi-static relating to thermodynamics and now are saying to think electrons dont carry energy, than why bring up thermodynamics? Sheesh...
The electron thermal movements are random so the net movement is zero (static) IRT to electrical current. When we apply an electric field to free charge particles (electrons) there is a bias causing a net drift if they remain free. This usually very slow drift is electrical current. The electrons as particles have mass so they carry KE like a rock as they are accelerated. The electrons have the property of charge, it's that charge that gives rise to electrical properties and fields that carry the electrical energy in the circuit, not the physical balls of mass. If we measure and/or calculate the energy of the moving mass of electrons (current) in a good conductor it's normally a tiny fraction of the electrical energy transferred in the circuit. Electricity (charged particles) moves in wires but electricity (in physics) is not electrical energy.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-physics/chapter/electric-current/

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#### nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
9,438
You just don't quite understand the fuller picture yet. It's expected and natural in the process of learning.

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#### Insignificantinvisiblespo

Joined Nov 7, 2021
30
"electron thermal movements" what the heck are electron thermal movements?

#### Insignificantinvisiblespo

Joined Nov 7, 2021
30
The electron thermal movements are random so the net movement is zero (static) IRT to electrical current. When we apply an electric field to free charge particles (electrons) there is a bias causing a net drift if they remain free. This usually very slow drift is electrical current. The electrons as particles have mass so they carry KE like a rock as they are accelerated. The electrons have the property of charge, it's that charge that gives rise to electrical properties and fields that carry the electrical energy in the circuit, not the physical balls of mass.
A moving electron has a magnetic field, regardless if you say its movement is net zero. Therefore a plate charged with electrons would produce an electric field and a magnetic field. Have you all ever considered what you learned is wrong? Humans existed for supposedly millions of years, discovering the ability to actually use what we named electricity and ways to use it means you cant ever be wrong about how to interpret what it actually is? People say negative electrons flow from a positive plate to a plate which they should be repelled these days. For fuck sake people. Schools cant even teach logic anymore.

#### nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
9,438
A moving electron has a magnetic field, regardless if you say its movement is net zero. Therefore a plate charged with electrons would produce an electric field and a magnetic field. Have you all ever considered what you learned is wrong? Humans existed for supposedly millions of years, discovering the ability to actually use what we named electricity and ways to use it means you cant ever be wrong about how to interpret what it actually is? People say negative electrons flow from a positive plate to a plate which they should be repelled these days. For fuck sake people. Schools cant even teach logic anymore.
I tried. Like I said the electron fixation is a strong one that easily leads to the crooked path.

https://unlcms.unl.edu/cas/physics/tsymbal/teaching/SSP-927/Section 08_Electron_Transport.pdf
At any point in a metal, electrons are always moving in a variety of directions with a variety of thermal energies. The net current density is thus given by Eq.(2), where v is the average electronic velocity or drift velocity. In the absence of an electric field, electrons are as likely to be moving in any one direction as in any other, v averages to zero, and, as expected, there is no net electric current density. In the presence of a field E, however, there will be a drift velocity directed opposite to the field (the electronic charge being negative), which we can compute as follows. Consider a typical electron at time zero. Let t be the time elapsed since its last collision. Its velocity at time zero will be its velocity v0 immediately after that collision plus the additional velocity −eEt/m it has subsequently acquired. Since we assume that an electron emerges from a collision in a random direction, there will be no contribution from v0 to the average electronic velocity, which must therefore be given entirely by the average of −eEt/m. However, the average of t is the relaxation time τ.
http://amasci.com/miscon/elect.html

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#### BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
4,744
It’s official, he is a troll.

Bob

#### MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
25,919
If you know so much about electricity why did you bother to come here with your questions?

#### Insignificantinvisiblespo

Joined Nov 7, 2021
30
If you know so much about electricity why did you bother to come here with your questions?
I have a random collection of information in my head. I did not learn along the school system path, so i know bits about the most advanced information and i know bits about the least advanced information, and bits of information here and there in between the most and least advanced information. Ive come to fill in some of the gaps to paint a more complete picture. No one in there sane mind would say school only teaches rational concepts. Nor do they teach absolute facts. Its people like me who have the right stuff to say, "that shit ain't right" to their "superior". Just cause you are teaching something doesn't mean you cant be wrong. What anyone learns comes from what someone else learned, from experimenting, and then threw on some random label to say what to call it. Like electricity. Many moons ago some human saw lightening and labeled it electricity. People do experiments with said electricity to try to understand it at its most basic indivisible units, and make up labels and write down what they saw. Eventually we got a collection of those labels and observations inna book we labeled a school text book. Sure people know how to produced what so and so called electricity, and use it like so and so observed and wrote down yesteryear, but it seems more of a collection of a how to book and not really a collection of what it actually is book. Look at what they are saying at schools. Current flows from positive to negative. What kind of current flows from positive to negative? If that is true, than you all should consider your degree wrong and just a how to book. And btw, its really difficult to believe what people teach as true when their story doesnt make sense. Imagine a girl going to court for a speeding ticket the cop video recorded happening and the girl said to the judge; "i wasnt moving, everything else was."

#### MrSalts

Joined Apr 2, 2020
1,521
I did not learn along the school system path, so i know bits about the most advanced information and i know bits about the least advanced information, and bits of information here and there in between the most and least advanced information.
Then you're in the perfect position to argue/object with the answers you you get from the people who have taken the time to fill in the information gaps you seem to have. There is really no reason you should learn, just imagine how you think it should work and argue with anyone who knows. I'm sure you can find support for your partially formed ideas from random people on various YouTube videos. If you find one person with the same theory, that means you were right. Keep up your fantasy.

#### nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
9,438
I have a random collection of information in my head. I did not learn along the school system path, so i know bits about the most advanced information and i know bits about the least advanced information, and bits of information here and there in between the most and least advanced information. Ive come to fill in some of the gaps to paint a more complete picture. No one in there sane mind would say school only teaches rational concepts. Nor do they teach absolute facts. Its people like me who have the right stuff to say, "that shit ain't right" to their "superior". Just cause you are teaching something doesn't mean you cant be wrong. What anyone learns comes from what someone else learned, from experimenting, and then threw on some random label to say what to call it. Like electricity. Many moons ago some human saw lightening and labeled it electricity. People do experiments with said electricity to try to understand it at its most basic indivisible units, and make up labels and write down what they saw. Eventually we got a collection of those labels and observations inna book we labeled a school text book. Sure people know how to produced what so and so called electricity, and use it like so and so observed and wrote down yesteryear, but it seems more of a collection of a how to book and not really a collection of what it actually is book. Look at what they are saying at schools. Current flows from positive to negative. What kind of current flows from positive to negative? If that is true, than you all should consider your degree wrong and just a how to book. And btw, its really difficult to believe what people teach as true when their story doesnt make sense. Imagine a girl going to court for a speeding ticket the cop video recorded happening and the girl said to the judge; "i wasnt moving, everything else was."
What your telling us by your responses is, that you know little about the basic principles of microscopic electrical science. If filling out the gaps (that seems more like the grand Canyon) overturns your present picture of electrical science that should be seen as a very good thing.

It's pretty obvious you don't know, what you don't know and change is hard but the insight received from a broad and scientifically correct view is priceless.

#### MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
25,919
Knowing a little about something can be a dangerous thing.

Current flows from positive to negative.
I challenge you to define the terms current, positive, and negative.
Same as define north, south, black and white.

#### Insignificantinvisiblespo

Joined Nov 7, 2021
30
"If you find one person with the same theory, that means you were right. Keep up your fantasy."

Must be the logic they used to keep putting trillions towards building fusion power plants.

I try to envision realistic long term solutions. I wouldn't underestimate a persons abilities because i perceived them as uneducated.

The person/people who invented math had no education in math because math didnt exist before they invented it.

#### Insignificantinvisiblespo

Joined Nov 7, 2021
30
Knowing a little about something can be a dangerous thing.

Current flows from positive to negative.
I challenge you to define the terms current, positive, and negative.
Same as define north, south, black and white.
All we really know is we can make a non living thing do work for us. Saying you know more than that is saying you know and have proof of the existence or non existence of soul.

#### cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
7,627