Threshold voltage interpretation in mosfet saturation biasing

Thread Starter

yef smith

Joined Aug 2, 2020
1,446
Hello, In a slide below taken from the manual they say that maximal common model is Vdd-Vsg3+Vt1
two questions:
1.the last step from drain of M1 and gate of M1 the voltage drop is Vt1 ,its the condition which M1 will stay saturated.
However in the table they say that Vd-Vg>=-Vth
Why there is a minus in the Vth but in table they use +Vth as the condition for M1 will stay saturated.

2.What is the meaning of absolute value in the PMOS saturation condition?
Thanks.
https://aicdesign.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/lecture19-150211.pdf

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BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
11,463
2.What is the meaning of absolute value in the PMOS saturation condition?
Thanks.
I can make a stab at this one. They used absolute value so that the relation would stay the same for PMOS even though all voltages are negated from the NMOS ones.

I don’t like it much because it implies that you could invert any of the voltages and it would still be in the saturation region, which is not true. For example, make Vgs positive for the PMOS case and the inequality is unchanged after the absolute value, but the PMOS transistor is in cutoff with a positive Vgs.
 

Jony130

Joined Feb 17, 2009
5,593
1.the last step from drain of M1 and gate of M1 the voltage drop is Vt1 ,its the condition which M1 will stay saturated.
However in the table they say that Vd-Vg>=-Vth
Do the math
We have:
Vci_max = Vdd - Vsd3 - Vds1(sat) + Vgs1

We know that Vds should be larger or equal to (Vgs - Vth) to stay in saturation.
Therefor:
Vds1(sat) = Vgs1 - Vth1

From this, we have:
Vci_max = Vdd - Vsd3 - (Vgs1 - Vth1) + Vgs1 = Vdd - Vsd3 - Vgs1 + Vth1 + Vgs1 = Vdd - Vsd3 + Vth1

2.What is the meaning of absolute value in the PMOS saturation condition?
We use absolute value for simplicity, we simply want to have the same equation for NMOS and PMOS.
And for the PMOS, Vgs and Vth are negative.
 

Thread Starter

yef smith

Joined Aug 2, 2020
1,446
We have an expression that takes care of saturation in M5.
V_Ic_min=Vss+Vds_5_sat+Vgs1
what is the logic in minimal common mode expression?
Why making sure M5 is saturation ensures lower value of V_in common mode?
Thanks.
 
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