The right to repair...

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,278
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/new...-illegally-restricting-customers-right-repair
The Federal Trade Commission is taking action against grill maker Weber-Stephen Products, LLC, for illegally restricting customers’ right to repair their purchased products. The FTC’s complaint charges that Weber’s warranty included terms that conveyed that the warranty is void if customers use or install third-party parts on their grill products. Weber is being ordered to fix its warranty by removing illegal terms and recognizing the right to repair and come clean with customers about their ability to use third-party parts.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/new...llegally-restricting-customers-right-repair-0
The Federal Trade Commission is taking action against motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson Motor Company Group, LLC and Westinghouse outdoor generator maker MWE Investments, LLC for illegally restricting customers’ right to repair their purchased products. The FTC’s complaints charge that the companies’ warranties included terms that conveyed that the warranty is void if customers use independent dealers for parts or repairs. The FTC is ordering Harley-Davidson and Westinghouse to fix warranties by removing illegal terms and recognizing the right to repair, come clean with customers, and ensure that dealers compete fairly with independent third-parties.

“Consumers deserve choices when it comes to repairing their products, and independent dealers deserve a chance to compete,” said Samuel Levine, Director of the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection. “These orders require Harley and Westinghouse to fix their warranties, come clean with consumers, and ensure fair competition with independent providers. Other companies that squelch consumers’ right to repair should take notice.”
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,798
I can see the reason for voiding the warranty on equipment that uses unauthorized replacement parts. Otherwise, that would be a huge risk for manufacturers.
Yes I can see the argument too, but in very specific and defined areas where it can be proven that those replacement parts cause unreasonable risk. Like putting a Chinese LiPo battery in a cell phone. If you do that and the phone combusts inside your pocket, Samsung/Apple shouldn't owe you any hospital reimbursement or a new phone. But the other side of the coin is that putting a aftermarket fender flares on a car shouldn't void its warranty.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,452
Don't know if this has been mentioned, and it's not exactly a right-to-repair comment, but making rechargeable battery powered devices that aren't designed to have the battery replaced when it goes bad is one of my pet peeves.
So the device may be perfectly fine otherwise but, when the battery goes bad, you are just supposed to throw it in a landfill (or possibly recycle it) and buy a new one.
I have replaced bad batteries in several devices I've had to avoid this waste, although it can be rather a pain.
First you have to get the device open, which is often a challenge in itself (did I remove all the necessary screws?) with the case often snapped together at unknown places.
Then you have to determine if you can get a battery type, size, and voltage to replace the old one.

I just finished doing that with an otherwise perfectly good dust buster type vacuum that was several years old, where the batteries were failing.
When I pried it open, I found that it fortunately used four standard 18650 lithium batteries in a wrapped, welded-contact battery pack that was solder wired to the unit.
So I purchased new batteries along with a battery holder so I didn't have to solder/weld them together (except for soldering the holder terminals to the unit's wires), and to also make it easier to change them if they fail again.
The battery holder wouldn't quite fit in the battery space, so I had to cut out some of the plastic inside the case to make more room.
It was tight, but I was then able to close the case with the new batteries and holder.
All in all, may not be worth my time and battery cost on a financial basis, but it gives me a good feeling to not have to throw away an otherwise perfectly good appliance. :cool:
 
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Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
7,900
Years ago I repaired a solenoid (starter solenoid) by flipping over the washer that made contact with the two metal posts. It worked. Once. After that it welded itself in the closed position and though the car started the starter ran on and on. I had to disconnect the battery. Then go buy a new starter solenoid. One of those fender mounted solenoids.

Dummy - me. Almost cost me a new starter motor.
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,486
Don't know if this has been mentioned, and it's not exactly a right-to-repair comment, but making rechargeable battery powered devices that aren't designed to have the battery replaced when it goes bad is one of my pet peeves.
So the device may be perfectly fine otherwise but, when the battery goes bad, you are just supposed to throw it in a landfill (or possibly recycle it) and buy a new one.
I have replaced bad batteries in several devices I've had to avoid this waste, although it can be rather a pain.
First you have to get the device open, which is often a challenge in itself (did I remove all the necessary screws?) with the case often snapped together at unknown places.
Then you have to determine if you can get a battery type, size, and voltage to replace the old one.

I just finished doing that with an otherwise perfectly good dust buster type vacuum that was several years old, where the batteries were failing.
When I pried it open, I found that it fortunately used four standard 18650 lithium batteries in a wrapped, welded-contact battery pack that was solder wired to the unit.
So I purchased new batteries along with a battery holder so I didn't have to solder/weld them together (except for soldering the holder terminals to the unit's wires), and to also make it easier to change them if they fail again.
The battery holder wouldn't quite fit in the battery space, so I had to cut out some of the plastic inside the case to make more room.
It was tight, but I was then able to close the case with the new batteries and holder.
All in all, may not be worth my time and battery cost on a financial basis, but it gives me a good feeling to not have to throw away an otherwise perfectly good appliance. :cool:
Hi,

I've replaced batteries in so many devices i cant even remember half of them. A Dustbuster used NiCd's so it was just a matter of replacing them, a Power Drill used NiCd's and replacing them worked but i eventually went to a 12 volt external SLA battery with short cord and that worked better tahn any batteries i could replace, ever.

My last was an older cell phone with lithium battery that expanded and actually started to open the case for me (ha ha). I noticed the case was bulging on the cell phone so i looked closer and i could see the case itself was partly pried open already. I proceeded to lever it apart farther and i saw the battery and cover and all kinds of junk in there. That was the easy part. Getting the battery out was super tough to do because it was glued in with two tons of super strong glue, i think contact cement of some kind. What a beeeeaaaattttcccchhhh, to say the least. The next difficulty came with trying to unplug the tiny tiny connector, which i barely got out and almost couldnt. Putting the new battery in was sort of easy and getting the case closed was easy with some tape as i didnt want it permanent until i saw that the new connector did not come unplugged later.
By far the hardest part was getting the battery out because it was glued in so strong and you have to be careful prying it up from the case because you dont want to puncture or damage it in anyway even though i had it discharged first.
After that last repair i know now that it is better to take to a cell phone repair shop and let them do it for an extra $20 USD it saves a lot of work hassle and dangers in doing that kind of job (i used eye protection and flame proof gloves, had a fire extinguisher ready and now have two fire blankets too).
As far as cell phones go though, the non replaceable battery issue is now a major concern in Europe and thus the USA is thinking about it too. They dont want the eWaste anymore so they are making new laws that the phone (and other stuff) MUST have replaceable batteries so as to reduce the waste created by discarding so many devices to buy new ones. That's a reason they want to go to USB C exclusively too eventually although they may still be fighting with manufacturers about that one.
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,486
I can see the reason for voiding the warranty on equipment that uses unauthorized replacement parts. Otherwise, that would be a huge risk for manufacturers.
It could be that they want to stop gouging on OEM parts. This is a really nasty issue. I just recently spent $500 for one part and $600 for another OEM part that would cost about $150 max each with regular replacement parts online that i have used many times with no issues. That added $1100 to an already huge repair cost of $1400 and with some extra labor brought it up to $2800 which should have cost about $700.

The thing about removable cell phone batteries is they say they want to make the units water proof, but we all know that this can be done without gluing the battery inside.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,452
A little addendum to my battery replacement tale from post #205:

I started to wonder if there might be any protection circuit in the old battery pack so I took it apart
Sure enough, there was a large circuit board in the pack (about the length and width of two 18650 batteries side by side.

The board had several large transistor (likely MOSFETs) and at least a couple dozen small surface-mount parts.
It had wires going to all five battery connections (of the four batteries in series).
I think it is likely for balancing the charge by bypassing the charge current to any cells that reach the fully-charged voltage before the last one.

So I took the vacuum back apart and wired the board to the new battery holder terminals.
Fortunately there was just enough space between the battery pack and the case so I could again close the case (but it was really snug).
Anyway, it should now be protected against any one cell being overcharged (and the resulting possible overheating and fire :eek: ).
 

camerart

Joined Feb 25, 2013
3,730
Hi,
I can repair most things, and fill a couple of pages with my thoughts, but a while ago I bought some shoes in a sale £25, I recently had them repaired £35, then the soles fell off.
Shoes used to be repairable!
I accept that expensive shoes are repairable.
Camerart.
 

MrAl

Joined Jun 17, 2014
11,486
Does this apply to automobile electrical systems also?
I had a problem come up which i would like to fix or at least analyze myself but need a schematic.
 

camerart

Joined Feb 25, 2013
3,730
A little addendum to my battery replacement tale from post #205:

I started to wonder if there might be any protection circuit in the old battery pack so I took it apart
Sure enough, there was a large circuit board in the pack (about the length and width of two 18650 batteries side by side.

The board had several large transistor (likely MOSFETs) and at least a couple dozen small surface-mount parts.
It had wires going to all five battery connections (of the four batteries in series).
I think it is likely for balancing the charge by bypassing the charge current to any cells that reach the fully-charged voltage before the last one.

So I took the vacuum back apart and wired the board to the new battery holder terminals.
Fortunately there was just enough space between the battery pack and the case so I could again close the case (but it was really snug).
Anyway, it should now be protected against any one cell being overcharged (and the resulting possible overheating and fire :eek: ).
Hi C,
Carry out some tests, while you watch!
I was charging a 3x cell LION battery last week, and I had a temperature probe on it. I heard the overheat alarm go, but I was emailing, so I didn't rush. Then I heard a fisszz sound, and went to find it had blown. No fire but a warning to be careful.
C.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,798
That headline is pretty optimistic. It seems to imply some kind of legal decision was made to compel JD to change their tactics, which isn't the case. My takeaway from reading the MOU is that JD wants to be seen as making a concession so they drafted this "official" yet not legally binding "agreement" in which they pledge to increase availability of technical resources by continuing to offer everything they currently offer to customers and the public. I don't see what actual concession was made. If anything, this may be a step backwards. Next time this comes before a court, JD will say "We've already bent over backwards to accommodate these folks! just look at MOU we signed, and we've faithfully held to every letter of it."
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
10,180
Much like with Apple - Why let the customer repair the phone when you can squeeze him for $1,000 or more?

I am disappointed as this is not the way used to think the vendor-customer relationship was supposed to work. Time to take off the rose colored glasses.
 

SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
5,043
The problem Deere is facing, much like the auto business, is the transition from mechanical to electronic controls. One of the HUGE farmer complaints has been reduced reliability, ie having to spend quite a bit more on equipment repairs per unit dollar. Kind of a paradox. We want it to do more and still be as reliable as great granpa's Deere Model B with cheap and readily available replacement parts!
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,452
Another tale from the repair trenches:

I just repaired a toaster where they purposely made it difficult to disassemble.
It had about a dozen small screws holding it together with most being Phillips, but four had a triangular (tamper proof?) slot that I've never seen before.
I have Torx, Philips, square, and hex bits but, of course, no triangular ones.
Fortunately, they were not very tight and I was able to remove them with a small blade screwdriver.

The toaster failure mode was that the activating lever would not stay down,
After a few tests with the open toaster, I determined that the power contacts were not making solid contact when the lever was down, which was supposed to activate them.
So I just had to bend the power contacts slightly to make a good contact, and then reassemble the case (without the triangular screws :rolleyes:).
Failure solved.

I suspect the average person that might try to repair this would likely be frustrated by the (apparently) unremovable screws, and just junk the device.
What a waste that would be for such an easily fixed failure.
 
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