Very interesting development:

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ium-first-rechargeable-proton-battery-created

I wish these guys good luck, and hope they're able to design it robust enough to launch it to the market soon... it would definitely make the earth a much better place.

 

Very interesting development:

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ium-first-rechargeable-proton-battery-created

I wish these guys good luck, and hope they're able to design it robust enough to launch it to the market soon... it would definitely make the earth a much better place.

“The advantage is we’re going to be storing protons in a carbon-based material, which is abundant, and we are getting protons from water which is readily available.”

So what do you have when you deplete water of its protons?

 

I have been doing some reading on this.. From what I understand the process of removing protons is called phototransmutation. A nucleus a nucleus is irradiated with high-energy gamma rays and a proton will be ejected.


That is exactly what we need, home gamma ray generators. We will have Hulks running around all over he place.

 

Don't forget these babies...

 

It's more of a fuel cell that 'burns' hydrogen. The charge electrolysis mode stores the gas in the carbon electrode while the fuel cell mode discharge mode generates EMF from charge separation via a proton exchange membrane. The magic word here is In principle. The practical factors of efficient cheap h20 electrolysis make the chances of high energy storage density dubious IMO.

https://phys.org/news/2014-02-proton-battery-advances-hydrogen-power.html
http://www.idc-online.com/technical..._engineering/Polymer_Electrolyte_Membrane.pdf

 

Don't forget these babies...

Yeah, they promise you this:

and deliver this:

 

The magic word here is In principle. The practical factors of efficient cheap h20 electrolysis make the chances of high energy storage density dubious IMO.

Ditto. I'm not so sure this even looks good in principle. If you have renewable energy in excess and don't care much about the efficiency or the volume of the storage system, this might be a way to avoid the nasty metals in current batteries. But you'll never have one of these in your cellphone.

 

Ditto. I'm not so sure this even looks good in principle. If you have renewable energy in excess and don't care much about the efficiency or the volume of the storage system, this might be a way to avoid the nasty metals in current batteries. But you'll never have one of these in your cellphone.

Most of the time when you see one of these 'magic' battery stories in the pop-sci press it's about funding. The researchers have made it to step 0.1 of the experimental process and need a lot more money to maybe make it to step 0.1 of a practical process and beyond.
The article is totally misleading. First and most important this is NOT a rechargeable battery because you can't recharge a fuel cell. You fill it with a combustion fuel like in a car. In this case it's hydrogen ions stored in a electrode instead of a tank. If these guys get to 50% energy efficiency at high loads in a practical unit that would be something to talk about but a lead–acid battery might return about 90%.

 

Yes, you see these breakthrough claims all the time and they never amount to anything. Meanwhile, engineers tinker with lithium technologies and incrementally move the ball forward. Those incremental improvements add up real gains but the press doesn't want to write about that.

 

Every 20 years there’s some real breakthrough and most of these things go absolutely nowhere because of reasons totally unrelated to physics or technology.

Don't forget these babies...

Or this one.

 

Yes, you see these breakthrough claims all the time and they never amount to anything. Meanwhile, engineers tinker with lithium technologies and incrementally move the ball forward. Those incremental improvements add up real gains but the press doesn't want to write about that.

To be fair, that's because it's hardly 'news'. Identifying the next mainstream battery technology would be huge news and since journalism students don't know how to sort out these press releases with a critical eye, they all hope to be getting the big scoop. Somebody is going to end up being right. This one isn't it.

 

Yeah, we all know the broken clock homily. But still, when was the last time a breakthrough entered the mainstream? Not since Li Ions came out. LiPo was an incremental (though significant) step. LiFe was another step but still not a "breakthrough". Both increments on lithium trechnology. It seems like we see these breakthrough announcements every couple of months.

Perhaps I'm just jaded but I pretty much write off any battery breakthrough breathlessly reported in the popular press. I'll start to believe when a manufacturer announces production. Or, even better, Panasonic or Elon announces adoption of the technology.

 

Perhaps I'm just jaded but I pretty much write off any battery breakthrough breathlessly reported in the popular press. I'll start to believe when a manufacturer announces production. Or, even better, Panasonic or Elon announces adoption of the technology.

That's not jaded, it's just rational. I'm at the same point. I have friends that send me these articles and can't understand why I poo poo them. I'm hoping that, after they've sent a dozen or so, they'll begin to realize why I'm a skeptic.

 

I have friends that send me these articles and can't understand why I poo poo them.

Nevertheless... you still find those articles interesting, don't ya?

 

That's not jaded, it's just rational. I'm at the same point. I have friends that send me these articles and can't understand why I poo poo them. I'm hoping that, after they've sent a dozen or so, they'll begin to realize why I'm a skeptic.

Yeah, but I get sh!t for "being negative" around here so I generally keep my mouth shut. Domestic tranquility and all that.

 

Yeah, but I get sh!t for "being negative" around here so I generally keep my mouth shut. Domestic tranquility and all that.

yeah... keep your negative electrons out of this thread please... this is a positive proton battery! ...

 

yeah... keep your negative electrons out of this thread please... this is a positive proton battery! ...

Guess I should have be clear - "around here" was in reference to my domicile...

Personally, I'm partial to charmed quarks.

 

Nevertheless... you still find those articles interesting, don't ya?

Yup, I’m a sucker for all of them. I just know how to read them for the keywords that reveal where they’re really at in the development process. If it’s bench work by grad students, I know it’d be a decade before it’s commercial even if it succeeds.

 

Nevertheless... you still find those articles interesting, don't ya?

Here's an interesting one.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180319-rr.html


There's a thread here somewhere on supercapacitors and how they're becoming hard to distinguish from batteries. I'll post this in that thread if I can find it

 

Here's an interesting one.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180319-rr.html


There's a thread here somewhere on supercapacitors and how they're becoming hard to distinguish from batteries. I'll post this in that thread if I can find it

An alkaline AA battery (14 mm in diameter, 50 mm long, and weighs 24 g) can deliver about 2 AH (aka 7.2 kC) of charge while dropping from about 1.5 V to 0.8 V. To match that, a super cap would have to be about 10 kF.

Mouser has a 4 kF / 2.5 V supercap for over $300. It's 76 mm in diameter, 165 mm long, and weighs 1.3 kg.

I'm thinking they're going to be distinguishable for a while longer.

EDIT: Slight reorganization.