I have a SubPump and I Looked on Google to See how Mutch Water I would have to put into the SubPump Pit to See if it will go Off.

Google Says to put 20 Liters of Water in the SubPump Pit.

So then I Asked Google how many Cups is 20 Liters?

Google Tells Me 20 Liters is 48 Cups.

I Thought You had to put a lot of Watter in a SubPum Pit to get it to go Off?

Am I Right You need a Bucket of Water in a SubPump Pit to make it go Off?

 

Sorry, but the answer is WRONG! there are approximately 4.227 cups per liter, making 20 liters approximately 85.5 cups

 

I have a SubPump and I Looked on Google to See how Mutch Water I would have to put into the SubPump Pit to See if it will go Off.

Google Says to put 20 Liters of Water in the SubPump Pit.

So then I Asked Google how many Cups is 20 Liters?

Google Tells Me 20 Liters is 48 Cups.

I Thought You had to put a lot of Watter in a SubPum Pit to get it to go Off?

Am I Right You need a Bucket of Water in a SubPump Pit to make it go Off?

First, It is a sump pump. A sump is a small basin of water and you put the pump in there.
Second, there is no standard answer to your question because it really depends on the diameter of your sump and what fraction of the volume the pump takes in the sump.

some people have sump pumps made of an 8" pipe and it takes very little water to raise the float valve on the pump. Some sump pumps are failrly small and low-profile set into a 12" diameter sump.

also, 20 liters is just over 5 gallons. Don't use a measuring cup to measure that volume. A 5-gallon (20-liter) bucket is a common size and used for everything from plaster and the big paint buckets to pickles at mcDonalds. You know how much 5-gallons/20-liters is.

 

My basement sump-pump well is 55cm diameter and 1 metre deep.
The depth difference between switch on to switch off depends on the type/action of the float.

 

I just tested a sump pump that would sometimes not start when the float switch operated. The strange part is that if the power cord were very carefully unplugged without moving or shaking any part of the installation, and then plugged back in, the pump would start up and drain the sump until the float dropped and the switch opened. I observed this prior to doing anything with the installation. It had happened several times, but those were not consecutive failures, it would cycle in a correct manner for days at a time.
Given that the owner was well off the solution was to install a new pump as the replacement. But I still want to understand what the failure mode was.
This pump has an oil filled motor housing and so it is not simple to open it and inspect the motor and internal connections. It is a Zoeller brand 0.3 Hp 9.7 amp motor unit.. Has anybody else experienced anything like this??

My goal is to solve the problem and then install the second pump at a level above the new pump, to serve as a backup system. Presently, trying it out, it runs every time while I am watching.

 

Did the pump motor have brushes?
It sounds like what happens when the brushes don't make contact at one part of the rotation so, depending where it happens to stop it may not start again.

 

The motor is an AC induction motor. It would not have brushes. It is an oil-filled closed motor, so there would be no way to replace the brushes. Also, brush type motors would never have a life time adequate for a sump pump, except for those battery powered emergency pumps, which this one is not.
Also, a bad rotor segment in a brushed motor does not suddenly become good, and allow the motor to suddenly start running.

 

I have a SubPump and I Looked on Google to See how Mutch Water I would have to put into the SubPump Pit to See if it will go Off.

Google Says to put 20 Liters of Water in the SubPump Pit.

So then I Asked Google how many Cups is 20 Liters?

Google Tells Me 20 Liters is 48 Cups.

I Thought You had to put a lot of Watter in a SubPum Pit to get it to go Off?

Am I Right You need a Bucket of Water in a SubPump Pit to make it go Off?

I am seriously missing something here. When the water level increases to a point the pump comes on, when the water level decreases (level of water in the sump goes low) the pump shuts off. Adding enough water to the sump should turn the pump On and when the water level drops the pump shuts Off. I don't get the On and Off analogy in the post.

I run a pair of Zoeller 0.5 horsepower pumps in my sump. One sits on a brick a few inches above the other. How much water depends on the size (volume) of the sump. The number 20 liters of water means nothing. A sump has a volume and it's all about volume and sump dimensions. I don't see how Google can give a number less even knowing sump dimensions let alone for the float switch in any given pump?

I run each pump on it's own 20 amp service GFCI breaker. I have two in the sump because if for any reason one fails things get very ugly very fast. I really should add a flood alarm, maybe this summer. I also want to add a few wireless upstairs indicators so I know what they are doing. My own experience with the Zoller switches is they have been very reliable as well as their pumps. MisterBill2's problematic pump is really peculiar. The Zoller float switches in my experience are very reliable but when it comes to a sump overflow I would also just replace the system. Only other thing I can think of is the Zoller pumps do have internal thermal protection but a pump pumping clean water should not run hot. Even that does not fit with the symptoms.

This year I plan to dig up the side of the house and reroute all the water running into the basement sump into the outside storm sewer system.

Anyway, I still don't get the On / Off in the first post?

Ron

 

Thanks for the response, RR. It is very puzzling indeed. And when I contacted the one on-line customer service the person explained that they did not handle those pumps, and so gave me a number to phone. So now I am thinking yo build as test setup for this one. It would pump from a lower bucket to a higher one until it reached the low limit, and switched off. The upper bucket will slowly drain back into the lower bucket until it switches on, and repeats the cycle. But if it ever fails to start I will be able to examine it much more closely.
The one possibility is that the original installation had all of the cord jammed into the sump, so it may possibly have caused the fault. Unfortunately the original installers had less technical insight than my old sock has. Not much.

 

I like the bucket brigade concept. When I played this game I used a 10 gallon bucket which a pump promptly empties. Those pumps have a 1.5" NPT outlet so maybe a cheap plastic ball valve on the discharge to choke it a little. It would be a pretty slick test setup and the pump would just cycle over and over again.

Ron

 

Repeated cycling until the required number of cycles are completed is how life testing is done. One of my jobs did include setting up valid life cycle tests. Sometimes only 10,000 cycles and then they would check for wear and cracks, it was much faster than running until things failed. And we taught industrial robots to do some of the tests. One robot can easily replace 20 or even more test fixtures for each of a dozen models of seats. Thus the robot was a real cost saver, and much easier to change over to the next model.

 

So then I Asked Google how many Cups is 20 Liters?
Google Tells Me 20 Liters is 48 Cups.

You got it backwards, 20 litres is 84 cups.!

 

You got it backwards, 20 litres is 84 cups.!

This tends to verify my claim that not everything you see on the internet is correct, or even slightly true.
My claim is that there are both errors and lies abounding on the web.

 

Although it could well have been a slight lapse by the OP himself.

 

Although it could well have been a slight lapse by the OP himself.

Simple case of dislexia. 48 vs 84. It only depends on how the OP reads it. A carpet installer I know is terribly dyslexic. His skill, not sharing his notes with anyone - only he knows how to read his "mistakes" (alternative writing methods).

 

His skill, not sharing his notes with anyone - only he knows how to read his "mistakes" (alternative writing methods).

If only we could convince one of the members in this thread to do the same.