All valid points/questions and I don't have the answers. My guess is that it's been game of hot potato in upper middle management for the past two decades. "Just keep it going until I move to a new position and it's not my problem anymore

This is an excellent opportunity for you to propose to them "cloning" the system using modern components, as Wbahn has just described.

 

If it is that important to them, they shouldn't mind a $300.00 gamble.
Being able to keep that thing running is job security and you will be indispensable.
Any spare parts for it that you can acquire or reproduce will only cement your position.
You need a raise.

Really they shouldn't mind paying $5k for the windows-based software. But I can't make the decision for them, only for myself. I told them that the software exists and they acknowledged but gave no indication whether they intended to buy it or not. Right now I have no job security. The software is my job security. This is a new customer for me, not my employer. They called me to help with this PLC3 when it lost its programming after a power spike/outage. I was unable to help because I didn't have the software. They have been relying on a single Engineer from Rockwell for 25 years every time they have an issue. They have to fly him out every time and pay an uncomfortable amount of money because he's the only person they know of who has the software. They want someone local who can help. They seem to have picked me. They called me back out there (after I'd already spent a day not helping them) and paid me for a day to follow this Rockwell guy around and learn everything I could from him. I thought it would be awkward because we're technically competitors but he was very cool and professional. I got the impression that he was more than happy to let go of this, because he is working on bigger and better things. Flying out to resuscitate this old dinosaur is probably more of a distraction for him than an opportunity. The laptop in the pictures with the DOS software, downloading to the PLC, that's his laptop. He said he would be glad to give me the software if he still had it, but he has no idea where the floppies are; hasn't seen them in years.

 

I certainly hope they have a back up of the ladder!
I would think the safest course of action is to purchase an updated PLC system and write the ladder based on the old documentation etc and test off line as much as possible before installing and doing the final test & debug.
Max.

I have the backup. Got it from the Rockwell guy. There are services available to convert the old school program to a ControlLogix or similar; they cost $1/rung or more.

How many of those systems are still in use? If you can master them, you could be "The Guy" everyone calls to keep them resurrected until they totally disintegrate.

Yeah that sounds like a good way to make money, in the same way that being a proctologist is. But hey, it's money, I'll take it.

Visit any factory that had their assembly line retrofitted around the 80's - 90's from Hardwired control panels to PLC as many factory automation lines did and you will still come across them.
As long as it is working and spares are available, they are generally loath to replace.
Max.

I must say, this is the oldest PLC I have ever encountered in real life. This was commissioned before I was born. I stood there in awe of it. It's a real life museum piece still hard at work. When I went on the PLC forums asking about comms cables & software to talk to it, all the old salts were chiming in, saying that they hadn't seen one in 15-20 years. I come across PLC-5s all the time. But PLC-3 is a first for me.

Out of curiosity strantor, do they load bagged cargoes?

I've seen those spiral things shooting bags inside ships' holds to tightly cram the space in Pequiven, Venezuela. Some type of fertilizer IIRC.

Yes, grain sacks. This system takes them from the huge warehouse and deposits them into the ship at a rapid pace. From what I hear, it's basically spitting a continuous flow of sacks like a fire hydrant into the ship. Times 4.

This is an excellent opportunity for you to propose to them "cloning" the system using modern components, as Wbahn has just described.

Yeah I already turned that down. It's such a big undertaking that I would have to devote myself 90% to it for a couple months at least. I'm already doing that for another customer. This PLC-3 deal was part of the 10%. I have design projects stacked up right now and won't be able to get around to it for months. I advised them not to wait that long. I advised them to get Rockwell or someone else in there ASAP and get started on it, before it turns into an emergency with prolonged downtime. But I told them if they're still in the same spot 6mos from now, I'd be glad to bid it.

 

They have been relying on a single Engineer from Rockwell for 25 years every time they have an issue. pay an uncomfortable amount of money because he's the only person they know of who has the software. They want someone local who can help.

This is the way I made most of my income, as with many manufacturers they buy and have factory installation of foreign equipment, either from US or Europe and once the system is up and running OK the installation engineers are gone.
Fly-in maintenance got expensive fast.
I worked at being the local 'expert' on the system, often bending the ear of tech support on the phone for a while for help.
After I could virtually write my own ticket!
Max.

 

I must say, this is the oldest PLC I have ever encountered in real life. PLC-3 is a first for me..

I cut my teeth on the AB PLC-2!
Still some around.
Max.

 

Well I just purchased the floppies off eBay. Will let you guys know how it turns out. Now I just need to pull out my old-as-dirt laptop (w/ PCMCIA slot) from the dusty box in the garage and probably buy a new battery for it, and then buy the $1,500 1784-PCMK proprietary AB comms card and I'll be all set!

 

This is the way I made most of my income, as with many manufacturers they buy and have factory installation of foreign equipment, either from US or Europe and once the system is up and running OK the installation engineers are gone.
Fly-in maintenance got expensive fast.
I worked at being the local 'expert' on the system, often bending the ear of tech support on the phone for a while for help.
After I could virtually write my own ticket!
Max.

When I went rogue a few months ago I set myself up to go back into Field Service; troubleshooting other people's work, doing retrofits, occasional small design projects, etc.; That's the business that I know. 24/7 On call emergency field service, the Industrial Controls Fireman. I did that for years, either as self-employed, or working for a competitor. I've sat in a desk for the past 3 years under the "Controls Engineer" title and was looking forward to getting back into the field and seeing real action. But all this design work just fell into my lap. I was not expecting this. If things continue on this trajectory, then it looks like I'll end up being the "local expert" on systems that I designed. Which is cool. I just have to figure out how to operate in this new business environment. I've never had to bid/estimate medium-large scale systems. My first few estimates were way off and I lost my butt on those jobs. But it's getting better.

I started tracking my time down to the minute and putting it in man-hour buckets. I use a system called Harvest. It allows me to run reports and see where I'm spending my time and helps me identify areas for improvement and be more productive. It helps me provide better estimates when I have a pool of data in past projects. Instead of "shooting from the hip" I'm making educated estimates now. It allowed me to realize things like "hey, I'm putting in 80hrs/wk and 20 of those hours are spent putzing around with Excel. I need a better system to manage my customers, invoicing, payments, etc. It makes sense to actually spend a lot of money on a system if it can make a big improvement." Same thing for electrical drawings. I have always scoffed at the price of these big-name Engineering softwares. But I ran the numbers and I can almost justify buying Solidworks Electrical, with all the time I waste in AutoCad, every time I have to make a change on one page and then go back through all the pages, etc.

Well anyway, I have category in my time tracking for "screwing off" and I already have to charge an hour to it for staying on this thread, so I'm out. See you guys later!