Apparently my mind works in a different way than #12's and others (no surprise there, people's brains don't all function in the same way). I remember the pain of migraine's so intense that I actively thought how nice amputating my head would be just to make the pain go away (and realizing how easy and understandable it would be for someone to commit suicide at that moment). I remember the pain of severe gout in both feet. I remember the pain of a back strain that was severe enough to reduce me from walking without pain to crawling on the ground within the space of less than ten steps. I remember the pain of being trapped in a mechanism that was literally trying to rip me in to just above the waste (and would have succeeded had I not been able to jam it up with a large mallet). I remember a handful of instances of emotional pain so intense it left me screaming in agony. I remember the sights, sounds, and smells I experiences doing search and rescue and disaster relief work. I remember the terror of being confronted by people that were intent (or at least more than willing) on killing me. Yet sitting here now, I can think back on any and all of them and remember the pain, but not relive it or experience it as anything much beyond a memory of something that happened at some point in history to someone, that someone just happening to have been me. Actually, the ones that give me the most problem are memories of things I did that I wish I had done differently -- some of those are associated with the events described above, but an amazing number of them are associated with events that were either just mildly embarassing or where I missed an opportunity to "rise to the occassion". It's when those memories come to me for some reason that I will sometimes get worked up briefly and sometimes even say outloud (if I'm alone, like driving in my car), "Why did I DO that?!", followed immediately by me telling myself that it doesn't matter because what ever I did or didn't do is done with, can't be changed, and is three or so decades in the past.

I've heard it said that Bill Clinton was great at "compartmentalization", meaning that he could take concepts and tasks and separate them in his mind to such a degree that they didn't interact. I sometimes wonder if I don't have something similar. For instance, one night my dog got out and I couldn't find her. The next day I was scheduled to go fly and as I drove away from my house I saw her on the side of the road. She had been hit by a car and was many hours dead. Since there was nothing I could do for her, I decided to wait until after I got home to call the transportation department to report her so that they could come get her and dispose of her properly. I was quite attached to that dog (I bought the damn house for her!) and it hit me pretty hard. Yet, without realizing it, once I walked into the building at the airport to sign out the plane I didn't think a single time about her until after the flight and after I had put the aircraft away and was walking back from the hangar, when it hit me with the suddeness of a computer context switch and it was as if I hadn't stopped thinking about her. The suddeness of it returning to the forefront of my mind is what made me realize that it had been completely out of my conscious mind for over two hours.

This ability is both good and bad, like most things. I can exclude everything else except what I am focussed on at the moment. It is part of being what is known as "highly field independent" and I think it is what makes me a pretty fair engineer, but also makes it so that I don't multitask worth a damn.

Getting back on point, I wouldn't choose to forget any part of any of them. In ways that I could not possibly even imagine, all of these have contributed to who and what I am. I choose to live in the real world, as much as possible. To my mind, this is much akin to questions like, "If you had only three months to live, would you want to know?", or "Would you want to know if your spouse was cheating on you?", or "Would you want to know if your father was actually a war criminal?" Yes to all of the above. I don't believe in sticking my head in the sand or wanting to be "protected" from knowledge that I might not like, no matter how bad. I believe in knowing Truth, no matter how must I might wish it were some other way. There are some things that I have no proper business knowing, but that doesn't mean that I don't want to know them anyway.

About the only memories that I would choose to lose are those that have left me with a false sense of Truth. For instance, you see a movie that is "based on true events" and about the only true thing depicted in the movie is that there really was a conflict called WWII. But your mind often still incorporates the things you "learned" in the movie into your understanding of the "truth" about WWII, even if you understand that the major stuff was bogus, it is often the minor stuff (the movie's backstory, if you will) that gets incorporated into your notions of history, if for no other reason than that that is the ONLY reference you have for that tidbit and, as time goes by, you forget where you got that tidbit of "fact" and just accept it at face value. Even so, rather than forget about it, I would like to be able to tag it is "fiction", but still remember it.

But this is how I want to live because it is how I believe that I can function best. I don't claim that this is necessarily true for everyone, nor do I claim that because it is how I believe I can function best in any way means that it is the best way to function.

 

#12, if you are suffering because of your past accident, I wholeheartedly wish this suffering ends soon.

I don't suffer emotionally any more, just physically, and I'm certainly better off than a lot of people, but I felt that you were entirely wrong to say it is cowardly to want to forget some things. I spent 7 years as a mental health councilor and I was amazed at the parade of people that were keeping their worst wounds fresh and raw in their daily lives. That is the opposite of forgetting, but it isn't courage. (Reference: Games People Play by Eric Berne, 1964. The Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck, 1978. Collected works of C. G. Jung, 1973.)

My goal here is to explain that there is a lot of territory between forgetting a bad experience and becoming a neurotic wreck who actually stops functioning. Where is cowardice on this spectrum? Is it the extreme end with the magic forgetting pill? Is it the on the end where people collapse from the stress?

An idea I picked up from somebody on this site: I leave the conclusion as an exercise.

 

I don't have much more to add to this conversation, really. The only argument I support without hesitation is that I don't know of any way to discern between harmful and useful (even not apparently) memories.

My harmful line is memories that make you emotionally numb, that don't invoke emotions or caring thoughts of any kind but make you want to withdraw into a blank shell of mechanized logical reaction to push them out of your head.

For me it was memories of helplessness, where nothing would stop what was happening and our job was to clear the way of obstructions to their leaky overloaded boats while under orders to do as little as legally (Not to use our ships to transport them to refugee camps) possible to help those we found. The memories haven't changed my life much in a positive or negative way but when I see a face of lost hope, I remember.


Some commands defied the orders (we didn't) and picked up people anyway. Here are a few stories similar to mine.
http://ussmortondd948.org/Sea_Stories_Capt_Bell_s_rescue_story.html

 

I am constantly haunted by the memory of having watched my sociopath sister booby-trap the home of her biological mother - MY mother, by waxing the floors of the home they shared to a slippery finish, over my strongest objections, until the inevitable occurred and the octogenarian tumbled twice within as many months.

The first fall left Mom wheelchair-bound, and in the wake of that fall, I was able to make her understand the danger posed by those slippery floors, and to endorse the urgent need to carpet all floors, and to fix hand railings along the hallway in that home, so as to give the old lady something to steady herself, since she was really wobbly on her feet by then.

My relief at that small victory was short lived, as the perpetrator, whose psychological weapon of choice has always been throwing shrieking temper tantrums, FORBADE any such safety features from being fitted in that house, by cowing the old lady into accepting that the slippery floors had to stay in contempt of all entreaties for common sense safety.

When the second fall came it sent the victim to hospital for major reconstructive surgery to try and reassemble her shattered femur, after which I watched her fade away a little more each day, and finally die in horrible agony after 3 months.

I wish I could forget this dark family history, but yet I felt compelled to dredge up those very recent memories, commit them to paper, and submit the whole account to law enforcement, even if the chances of obtaining a conviction are slim on account of the victim being as elderly as she was.

Sorry for the rant, fellas. In precisely one week from today, it will have been a year since that murder was committed right under my nose, and perhaps for that reason, I am at this moment burdened with a deep sadness and simmering rage, over my inability to stop the fate I saw unfolding, and the failure, at least thus far, of justice to visit the guilty.

So I guess selective memory can be a good thing, but, in this case, I opted NOT to forget, until I am CERTAIN that all legal options have been completely exhausted. Then, and only then will I find some measure of peace, and satisfaction that I did all I could, albeit after the damage was done.

 

I seem to forget any instructions my wife gives me.

If I visit a place once, I can find my way around the next time 10 years after. I seem to recall exact buildings, crossroads, gas stations etc.

But I can't remember people's names, birthdays, anniversaries (like our wedding anniversary ).

 

I know what you mean. The family farm is on a road that was not even named until about 1985, but I could find it from 200 miles away, on a rainy night, the first time I drove a car. Then again, I can't remember the name of anyone that works in my dentist's office except the dentist, and I've been there 6 times in the last 3 months.

I once called my doctor's daughter by another daughters name and she got huffy about it. I'm so bad with names that she was lucky I remembered any of the daughters names. I usually call them all, "Amy" because that's their mothers name.

 

I once called my doctor's daughter by another daughters name and she got huffy about it. I'm so bad with names that she was lucky I remembered any of the daughters names. I usually call them all, "Amy" because that's their mothers name.

Which begs the question of just why you can so readily remember your dentist's wife's name?

 

Readily? It took me 12 years to learn the wife's name!

 

I remember song lyrics from 35 years ago, but can't remember what happened last week.

 

Readily? It took me 12 years to learn the wife's name!

Hmm, don't let 'the wife' see that without the context.

Actually, I think I might have my wife's name down pretty well before that -- but the jury's still out.

 

How do you remember which one's the wife?

 

Simple. That would be the one that gets upset when their anniversary is forgotten.

 

I remember song lyrics from 35 years ago, but can't remember what happened last week.

I can remember the details of Star Trek episodes from 1968.

 

But isn't that too similar with taking drugs to "forget what the cruel life threw at you"?

Where would one stop forgetting?

One would stop forgetting exactly where one wants to. Which is to say, memories which cause crippling psychological pain or disability. There is absolutely no advantage to having vivid memories of events which are disabling or traumatic to the point of harming the person's psychological health.

 

Tracecom, did you recently watch Total Recall?

I have seen the movie, and enjoyed it, but it was a long time ago...and I forgot most of it.

 

I can remember the details of Star Trek episodes from 1968.

Ah, but is that because you remember the details of something that you saw one time 45 years ago, or is it because you saw reruns of those same episodes for years and years afterward?

Actually, most humans are very good at remember the details of stories even if they only hear it once because we have a coherent tale to pin all the individual parts to. Isolated facts and tidbits are a lot harder for most people.

 

Ah, but is that because you remember the details of something that you saw one time 45 years ago, or is it because you saw reruns of those same episodes for years and years afterward?

Actually, most humans are very good at remember the details of stories even if they only hear it once because we have a coherent tale to pin all the individual parts to. Isolated facts and tidbits are a lot harder for most people.

My theory is that Star Trek and some other shows which were unique, new, and imaginative (Buffy the vampire Slayer, Fringe, Supernatural, X Files) stick much better in memory than "new" programs which are just the same old crap rehashed.

It seems TV Land ran out of new ideas some time back.

That said, the new Sleepy Hollow show is pretty perky.

 

Actually, most humans are very good at remember the details of stories even if they only hear it once because we have a coherent tale to pin all the individual parts to. Isolated facts and tidbits are a lot harder for most people.

I tend to think if there is a significant emotional event tied with the story, it's burned into memory.

I can still remember the name of the person who sat in a three week class that I taught ... because ... he wrote the phone numbers to quite a few personal service providers in SCREW magazine, back in the late 70s.

It was re-enforced about a decade later when he came to work for me and prior to his arrival, a lot of brown paper mailings arrived at the unit. I asked him if he was a member of the **** flick of the month club.

There are numerous triggers that enable the intensity of memory retention. It runs the gamut of emotions. Does one really think they don't put their hands on a hot stove because their mommy said not to do it? They remember because of an "emotional experience" of touching a hot stove.

 

. . .I was speaking to one of my friends, a Psychology Professor, I entered the conversation quite by accident, he was telling someone about a new procedure that involved "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome" a lot of military folks are in stress and are having attacks.

He spoke of an interesting therapy, I thought it strange at the time, however people are told to recall the offending memory, while they do, the Therapist will deliberately move a pencil or object in front of their eye's from right to left telling them to watch it. what he say's happens, the brain is forced to ...

I think this is called EMDR or Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing therapy.

 

I have believed that memories are anchored by emotional tags since I was old enough to figure out why I was getting spanked. It is for the purpose of anchoring the correction needed at an emotional level in a person that isn't all that intellectual yet. Lately, I'm glad to see that "recognized" science is catching up with "folklore" and "horse sense".

The, "Don't touch the fire story" is a well worn example. The way I heard it was: A thousand generations of mothers have told a thousand generations of children not to touch the fire. Then they touch the fire. Why? Because it has to be experienced to become real to them. Each person makes his own mistakes and gets his own blisters, and that continues for all of your life. For any one person, his blisters are real, yours are just stories.

In case MrChips was talking to me, I don't remember which one is the wife. I just call them all, "Amy".