I just had a thread closed because it involved discussion of a forbidden transformer-less power supply. That’s fine and @DickCappels was perfectly within moderator rights to close it on that basis.

As I said in that thread, I’d given up on that particular project because I suspect the item failed for more complex reasons than the power supply. I just don’t think it’s worth chasing.

My question here is not about that one thread but more generally about banning discussion of transformer-less power supplies within the context of Technical Repair. Most of the projects here involve failed power supplies and they are ALL transformer-less. I don’t think transformer power supplies are even legal anymore. Certainly they’re irrelevant in modern electronics.

So how to reconcile? It would be a shame to lose this particular forum. The wine-cooler thread alone has brought a number of folks to a successful repair. Repair of their transformer-less power supplies.

 

I would propose a simple change to the list of restricted topics: rather than "transformerless power supplies," change that to "design and construction of transformerless power supplies."

This would allow threads such as yours, regarding troubleshooting and repair of an existing unit, while ruling out discussions by newbies trying to gin up their own designs.

 

My question here is not about that one thread but more generally about banning discussion of transformer-less power supplies within the context of Technical Repair. Most of the projects here involve failed power supplies and they are ALL transformer-less. I don’t think transformer power supplies are even legal anymore. Certainly they’re irrelevant in modern electronics.

Now that you mention it? Just about all power supplies are transformerless and finding a good linear supply with a transformer is a chore. I just figure they likely won't change and it is their sandbox. I wonder how many electronic enthusiast are fatalities of mains power be it 120 VAC or 240 VAC every year?

Ron

 

Now that you mention it? Just about all power supplies are transformerless and finding a good linear supply with a transformer is a chore.

Nearly all supplies are now switching supplies. These are generally not transformerless, and are properly isolated. I think the ban on transformerless supplies really means non-isolated line input supplies.

Non-isolated supplies are dangerous because the low voltage circuit is connected directly to the mains, and, if done wrong, or even plugged into an outlet that is wired wrong, can give a fatal shock to someone touching what they think is low voltage.

I doubt that the ban was intended to restrict talk about repairing, or even creating isolated switching supplies.

Bob

 

In the context of design, I agree we should shy away from transformerless supplies.

In the context of repairing an existing one,the only reason I could think of not helping someone is they lack the safety knowledge when troubleshooting and effecting repairs. That is my only concern.

With that said, if I discern a safety issue, I can either state in the thread that I wont render assistance to the thread starter or simply not comment at all. My preference will be the latter unless I've already started with assisting.

This is always a contentious issue. It was when it was first place on the ban list. Revisiting such things from time to time refreshes the memory on why it was done and if there are ways to mitigate the problem to allow it.

One issue that always rears it ugly head is liability. Anyone can look up the estimated worth of a site and the dollar signs could be intoxicating to a lawyer.

 

One issue that always rears it ugly head is liability. Anyone can look up the estimated worth of a site and the dollar signs could be intoxicating to a lawyer.

Is it the site, or the individuals providing the advice that would be liable?

I agree that repairing a transformerless supply is in a different category to original design and build.

 

One issue that always rears it ugly head is liability. Anyone can look up the estimated worth of a site and the dollar signs could be intoxicating to a lawyer.

Joe, I hear this quite a bit including gun forums I am active in when hand loading powder charge data is passed along bullet weight to charge and other hand loading data. What I can not find is a single instance where an online forum has managed to get sued in a liability case involving either. Simply put if I read something stupid or misinterpret something in an online forum and manage to cause myself personal injury how is the forum liable? Every forum be it guns or electricity should advocate good safety practices but at the same time I have learned you can't fix stupid and you can't save people from themselves.

Ron

Ron

 

The problem Ron is no one here has actual knowledge of the thread starter's knowledge, skills, abilities, or attitudes towards the task at hand, It is all inferred by they way they type and their responses to members inquiries. Especially those that fly by and disappear.

Another is which standards apply when discussing things. Automotive lighting modifications would be one that can have multiple jurisdiction requirements of which any number of people in this forum have direct knowledge of all the rules and regulations, the safety testing etc. This is of no concern for the thread starters as all they see is the cost of the item vs what it would cost them to make, bypassing any safety related required tests. I don't know what the Indian standards are nor individual states standards. It might be a presumption that satisfying the DOT is all that is required. We know when it comes to pollution, the car manufactures have to pass both the EPA and the CARB requirements.

Who's to say this forum, members and by extension, the owners for allowing the users, can not unknowingly or unwittingly participated in an illegal activity.

In the terms and rules there is this line ....

All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of All About Circuits, nor Xenforo, Ltd. (developers of Xenforo) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

If that is sufficient, then I withdrawl my comment.

One comment on the TOS and User Agreement. Can we get a revision number and date on each.

e.g. TOS rev(A) effective 2020 Mar 00.

 

The problem Ron is no one here has actual knowledge of the thread starter's knowledge, skills, abilities, or attitudes towards the task at hand, It is all inferred by they way they type and their responses to members inquiries. Especially those that fly by and disappear.

Another is which standards apply when discussing things. Automotive lighting modifications would be one that can have multiple jurisdiction requirements of which any number of people in this forum have direct knowledge of all the rules and regulations, the safety testing etc. This is of no concern for the thread starters as all they see is the cost of the item vs what it would cost them to make, bypassing any safety related required tests. I don't know what the Indian standards are nor individual states standards. It might be a presumption that satisfying the DOT is all that is required. We know when it comes to pollution, the car manufactures have to pass both the EPA and the CARB requirements.

Who's to say this forum, members and by extension, the owners for allowing the users, can not unknowingly or unwittingly participated in an illegal activity.

In the terms and rules there is this line ....

All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of All About Circuits, nor Xenforo, Ltd. (developers of Xenforo) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

If that is sufficient, then I withdrawl my comment.

One comment on the TOS and User Agreement. Can we get a revision number and date on each.

e.g. TOS rev(A) effective 2020 Mar 00.

In line with the above who could guarantee that a wrong piece of advice is given by any member who knows things wrong?

The other variation, that the OP could be construing as a formal suggestion, is when people start to just guessing. Quite common, even if not frequent, with newbies that dare to think in loud voice.

 

In the terms and rules there is this line ....
All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of All About Circuits, nor Xenforo, Ltd. (developers of Xenforo) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

They may not wish to be responsible, but I doubt that sentence has any binding legal effect. That too may depend on the applicable jurisdiction.

 

They may not wish to be responsible, but I doubt that sentence has any binding legal effect. That too may depend on the applicable jurisdiction.

Which in the case of this and many similar forums spans the entire globe. Anyway, it's not for me to question the rules or if we prefer TOS (Terms Of Service) as my job or purpose is to follow them. I have the same option as anyone else if I don't like the TOS then leave. That does not mean that occasionally a forum member won't call the TOS into question. I figure in any forum with class that the admins or forum owner should provide an answer and note I said Admin and not a moderator.

Ron

 

I agree Ron, the admin or owners need to set the stage for the forum. It's also within the purview of the membership to recommend other ideas for addition to or removal from said terms and agreements.

The moderator job is tough enough enforcing the rules and being the first point of contact for all the negative reactions from everyone.

Design and Repair are two related concepts. While I agree the transformer less designs should not be encouraged, I think they should be repaired. I also think doing due diligence, as much as that can be done in a forum, is requisite when advising on any repairs. Safety to me is ... the ass you save may be your own.

One of the reasons I stayed in this forum was back in the early stages when someone was working on a parachute deployment timer for a model rocket, this group came together and helped out with a design that was reported back as being successful after a 50,000 ft flight. I've been a member ever since the design of that circuit.

A kudo was Sgt Wookie helping a single mom create a simple USA LED sign for her daughter to take to some international competition.

Another kudo was received in the group by someone who noticed that the members here could argue in a manner they had not seen elsewhere ...that common tripe experienced on all forms of social media these days.

This forum has good standards of professional etiquette.

 

A kudo was Sgt Wookie helping a single mom create a simple USA LED sign for her daughter to take to some international competition.

Ah yes, the infamous Sgt. Wookie who I place almost (but not quite) in the highest esteem as I do Chesty Puller just not quite that high. Every now and then I read an old thread with his comments. I enjoy those threads. His avatar was pretty cool.

Ron

 

Sgt Wookie did look squared away in his dress uniform. He was on point as usual on that parachute thread as well.

This forum has great members, TNTC, too numerous to count. Or give individual kudos too as the list would be pretty long.


I hope the moderators discuss this thread and make the recommendation distinguishing between design and repair.

 

I hope the moderators discuss this thread and make the recommendation distinguishing between design and repair

No need! in less than 5 years more than half of you will be dead. Only those who have followed you and your past posts will reap the rewards of your diagnostics 2 questions that ivy league professors could not answer in such a way that does not belittle the thread starter. You are all truly masters of your craft. Your crafting an in-depth knowledge of your expertise that you can explain to a six-year-old. Bask in your laurels their well-deserved!! Now...stand aside your reign is over. Yin and yang right?
It's not a matter of premature senility it's right on time. Dammit this is the wrong site nevermind.

 

Sgt Wookie did look squared away in his dress uniform. He was on point as usual on that parachute thread as well.

This forum has great members, TNTC, too numerous to count. Or give individual kudos too as the list would be pretty long.


I hope the moderators discuss this thread and make the recommendation distinguishing between design and repair.

When I joined the forum, his avatar was different maybe some symbol from his past. It changed by the time he married IIRC.

At that time he was one of the real "regulars" here in the actual sense of the word.

What is about a parachute, Joe?

 

No need! in less than 5 years more than half of you will be dead. Only those who have followed you and your past posts will reap the rewards of your diagnostics 2 questions that ivy league professors could not answer in such a way that does not belittle the thread starter. You are all truly masters of your craft. Your crafting an in-depth knowledge of your expertise that you can explain to a six-year-old. Bask in your laurels their well-deserved!! Now...stand aside your reign is over. Yin and yang right?
It's not a matter of premature senility it's right on time. Dammit this is the wrong site nevermind.

Subtly paving your way to replace who?
No need. There is always a free place.

 

Hi,

The issue of allowing certain subjects to be talked about is sort of complicated but i think the main point is how much money do you have to defend yourself if someone tries to sue you for damages. Remember lawsuits are not only for when someone or some group is liable, but also for when someone might be liable or even when just accused of being liable.
Now the least definitive of these is when just being accused so concentrating on that, what would make someone accuse another of some liability. It would be the appearance of some liability.
So if you dont have the money or dont want to have to spend it to fight in court then try to diminish the paths to any appearance of some liability. Hence the content discrimination.

However, this site is supposed to be for professionals (as well as others) and i cant think of even one professional i have known in the last 50 years that would tell anyone not to talk about any circuit no matter what kind of voltage it connected too. In fact, some professionals work in very high voltage areas that would be very dangerous for anyone not familiar with proper practices therein.

So is this issue really about content? Definitely not. It's about individual competency.\
The logical answer then is that members who have the ability to handle such circuits should be allowed to talk about them, and those who dont should not be. This would mean some sort of rating would be needed for each member on what they could most likely be able to handle.
Unfortunately, this could be a difficult task to complete. Each member would have to prove their competency in an area such as offline power supplies, and temporarily banned from such discussions until they can prove they are capable. This just gets too complicated though i think.

So maybe the only solution is to go PM. Maybe start a private conversation inviting only members who are known to be competent, and only after the OP proves they know how to handle the subject matter safely.

Just some ideas. It's not easy to mix professional and amateur content although many sites dont worry about it. Comments welcome.

 

No need! in less than 5 years more than half of you will be dead. Only those who have followed you and your past posts will reap the rewards of your diagnostics 2 questions that ivy league professors could not answer in such a way that does not belittle the thread starter. You are all truly masters of your craft. Your crafting an in-depth knowledge of your expertise that you can explain to a six-year-old. Bask in your laurels their well-deserved!! Now...stand aside your reign is over. Yin and yang right?
It's not a matter of premature senility it's right on time. Dammit this is the wrong site never mind.

I was really sort of hoping to get another 10 years but I'll take what I get and be happy I have come this far. As to my watch? That ended years ago and I am good with stepping aside. I only wish for calm winds and following seas and if I get to heaven St. Peter I will tell, another Marine reporting sir I served my time in hell.

Ron

 

When I joined the forum, his avatar was different maybe some symbol from his past. It changed by the time he married IIRC.

At that time he was one of the real "regulars" here in the actual sense of the word.

What is about a parachute, Joe?

There was a rocket club in CA that had some questions about a delayed pulse to the squib. They were using a 555 timer. Anyway, the forum did what it does best ... helped them out. Now, that was the first effort of a group that I've seen in the five or so forums that produced a coordinated result. I'm sure the others had good results as well, but it was clouded by the other interpersonal actions of the group. Group dynamics certainly plays strong in forums.

I think Sgt Wookie also used his squadron patch as an avatar at one time. I remember the dress uniform because another forum member asked me that was an older picture. We both suspected it was.

My avatar remembers the people who worked in that system. It was designed about 7 years after the final shutdown. The dates started with the letter from the Vice CNO requesting an officer with electronic experience. I suspect the VCNO also wanted a MIT graduate because the officer would be detailed as Liaison to MIT Rad Lab. The end date was the termination of US participation in international chains.