But free energy would mean that you get more work out than you put in. That ain't gonna happen.disantlor said:it's pretty clear he's just trying to goad us on at this point.
However in an attempt to salvage some value out of this thread I have a question (albeit one thats probably obvious to everyone but me).
Why does electromagnetic induction not represent a situation where the energy output is greater than the energy input. What I mean is that it seems to me like youre getting "free energy" in a sense. You're doing work to cause motion and getting additional energy.
Clearly I'm missing someone because I'm sure this is not some breakthrough in physics that no one thought of. Just wondering. Thanks
But thats what I'm saying, you're doing work to move an object, in this case a magnet through a coil of wire. In addition you're getting a current induced in the wire as a side effect of this motion. In a way it seems like you're getting something for nothing. I know it's kinda a stupid question, but you're using a certain amount of energy to get a certain amount of work (the moving object) but in addition youre getting energy in the wire, just because it happened to be in the right place at the right time, so to speak.Ron H said:But free energy would mean that you get more work out than you put in. That ain't gonna happen.
If the wire weren't there, or it didn't have a current load on it, you wouldn't have to expend so much energy. If you want to get more power out, you have to put more in - with muscles, or diesel fuel, or falling water, or...disantlor said:But thats what I'm saying, you're doing work to move an object, in this case a magnet through a coil of wire. In addition you're getting a current induced in the wire as a side effect of this motion. In a way it seems like you're getting something for nothing. I know it's kinda a stupid question, but you're using a certain amount of energy to get a certain amount of work (the moving object) but in addition youre getting energy in the wire, just because it happened to be in the right place at the right time, so to speak.
well I never actually knew that it was harder to spin the motor with the wire present. I guess I should have assumed that, but there's the explanation to my question. I told you it was a stupid oneRon H said:If the wire weren't there, or it didn't have a current load on it, you wouldn't have to expend so much energy. If you want to get more power out, you have to put more in - with muscles, or diesel fuel, or falling water, or...
Here's a simple experiment. DC motors act as generators if you spin the rotor. Take a small one and spin the shaft. Now short out the terminals and spin it again. I think the point will be made.
Not profound, maybe, but not obvious. I found the answer on Google Groups.bobbyk said:Thanks for posting your over-unity-gain RC network, Ron H.
It really isn't all that profound, is it?
My 1.15-gain 4-element network has the same topology as your left-hand vertical string, except it only has your R4 (100K), R5 (1K), C4 (1n), and C5 (.1n). The bottom of C5 is grounded.
bobbyk
It was not a stupid question.disantlor said:well I never actually knew that it was harder to spin the motor with the wire present. I guess I should have assumed that, but there's the explanation to my question. I told you it was a stupid one
Yeah, it seemed to!Ron H said:Not profound, maybe, but not obvious. I found the answer on Google Groups.
I'm curious why you were being coy. It didn't irritate me, because I had just stumbled onto the thread, But it irritated the crap out of some of the other guys.
Fine.bobbyk said:Yeah, it seemed to!
I don't know the answer either. I did sim a circuit that has a maximum gain of 1.476. I also took your circuit, another R and C, and a couple of emitter followers and made a sine wave oscillator (simulated only).bobbyk said:Fine.
But, my original question was how large a gain can be acheived? It hasn't
been answered.
OK. this is a purely therotical question and has no basis in the real world.
Given an ideal linear 3-terminal RC network composed of an arbitrary number of resistors and capacitors of any value whatever connected in any manner whatsoever, what is the greatest magnitude of open-circuit
voltage gain for sinusoidal input?
I'm not being coy - I really don't know the answer