R.I.P. Senator John Sidney McCain III

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
"On the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress." From, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-mast#United_States

So he over corrects by, "signed a proclamation to fly the flag of the United States at half-staff until the day of his interment."
So you agree, The good Senator died on Saturday, Sunday was half-staff, and Monday, the flag should not be at half-staff. The news people and those that complained about it being not at half staff today are ignorant.
 
So you agree, The good Senator died on Saturday, Sunday was half-staff, and Monday, the flag should not be at half-staff. The news people and those that complained about it being not at half staff today are ignorant.
I am sorry to prolong this part of the thread, and I am not speaking for @shortbus or anyone else, but I do not agree with your conclusion at all.

I did not see/hear a single news report that said that raising the flag to full staff on Monday was illegal. There was a good deal of outrage and I think there should have been and I am very glad that the flag was lowered again today and will remain so until interment.

The outrage, I believe, was because it went against a tradition to fly the flag at half-staff until interment in honor of the passing of great men and women. McCain fits the category by all reasonable American standards. To me, a hero is someone who does what is required by principle regardless of the consequences to themselves. He showed this in his military service. He went on to earn the respect of so many in the Congress and on both sides of the isle for so many years. I have trained myself to never suspect malice when simple incompetence will do, but in this case, it is difficult to think otherwise.

The code concerning the flag and half-staffing has already been pointed out and I acknowledge that raising the flag on Monday was consistent with that part of the code. The code also makes clear that the President can modify the practice. You also need to understand, that the code is not a Federal Regulation that carries a penalty..per se.

If you review this senate document,
The United States Flag: Federal Law Relating to Display and Associated Questions which clarifies 4 U.S. Code § 7 and others (especially through court decisions) you will see that this issue was not a matter of law in the way in which you seem to suggest - that is, the WH flag did not have to be raised, by a matter of law.

The Flag Code is a codification of customs and rules established for the use of certain civilians and civilian groups. No penalty or punishment is specified in the Flag Code for display of the flag of the United States in a manner other than as suggested.

I have read of the outrage from the American Legion and other Veterans groups. I read the quotes in articles like this http://thehill.com/policy/defense/4...p-to-lower-flag-to-half-staff-to-honor-mccain and I admit that I did not otherwise verify them. Did I need to?

When I saw pictures where the WH flag is back to full staff while the GWM is at half-mast in the background https://twitter.com/alex_mallin/status/1034051018131206144/photo/1, I felt that it was just plain wrong and I think a lot of others did too.

The outrage was not made up by the media and the outrage was not ignorant.
 

Thread Starter

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,315
IMO from all his words and acts while alive McCain would not give much of a damn about how long the flag was at half-mast in his honor. The outrage, the outrage of our feelings on his death. Let him rest in peace next to his friend on that little quiet hill with his fellow ship-mates.
 
IMO from all his words and acts while alive McCain would not give much of a damn about how long the flag was at half-mast in his honor. The outrage, the outrage of our feelings on his death. Let him rest in peace next to his friend on that little quiet hill with his fellow ship-mates.
Well Said.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
The code recognized "principal figures of the Federal Government", and while it does not define that, it does specify the period of time for members of Congress. ABC news reported the flags were at half-staff this weekend.

The president has the authority to direct the half-staffing for anyone with a proclamation. He did that in this instance as well.

Do I think the honors should be from death to interment? Sure I do. Based on five and one half years in Hanoi Hilton would lead me to that conclusion.

The American Legion requested (urged) the President for the proclamation and honors till interment and got it. Good for them. They got it wrong using the word prominent.

What got in my crawl was the ignorance of the news media for not noting the typical honors for a member of Congress was observed. You know, the executive department following the U.S. Code. I know it's a novel idea and their Constitutional Responsibility.

This begs the question ... who is a principal figure in the the Federal Government? Hell, the code lists every department head, and the Speaker of the House, the Supreme Court Chief Justice and associate justices as worthy of one form or another.
 
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JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
"The United States Flag: Federal Law Relating to Display and Associated Questions" is a Congressional Research Report with no legal standing, an opinion of the writers.

The United States Code is a consolidation and codification by subject matter of the general and permanent laws of the United States. It is prepared by the Office of the Law Revision Counsel of the United States House of Representatives, according to
Office of the Law Revision Counsel

There are punitive and non-punitive areas in the U.S. Code, but they are laws never the less.
 
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