M16 - a sad, anger-provoking, cautionary tale

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Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
22,083
Yes, but recent SCOTUS decisions have confirmed the "we." Things got kind of hot in Lansing, recently.
I don't really understand the reference to SCOTUS and "we", but the demonstration in Michigan was about intimidation. AFAIK nobody shouldered their weapon and nobody got arrested. MSP is well know as a highly professional and well run department. I don't think the governor was intimidated.

BTW -- Today is the 50th Anniversary of the deaths of four students at the hands of a less organized, less competent Ohio National Guard Unit.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
I don't really understand the reference to SCOTUS and "we", but the demonstration in Michigan was about intimidation. AFAIK nobody shouldered their weapon and nobody got arrested. MSP is well know as a highly professional and well run department. I don't think the governor was intimidated.

BTW -- Today is the 50th Anniversary of the deaths of four students at the hands of a less organized, less competent Ohio National Guard Unit.
I am familiar with both incidents and good friends with the young attorney (at the time) who presented the case in the Kent State murders. "The there is no appeal from the point of a speeding bullet" was one of his catch phrases. It was a landmark decision and allowed individuals for the first time to sue the Federal government for tort.

As for the weapons, the Governor called it "racist" (as expected). As for the purpose, I cannot venture a guess.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
22,083
I am familiar with both incidents and good friends with the young attorney (at the time) who presented the case in the Kent State murders. "The there is no appeal from the point of a speeding bullet" was one of his catch phrases. It was a landmark decision and allowed individuals for the first time to sue the Federal government for tort.

As for the weapons, the Governor called it "racist" (as expected). As for the purpose, I cannot venture a guess.
People can call it whatever they want, especially if they don't believe the protesters have a valid point, or even one worthy of consideration. I think the "duck" analogy might apply here. If it walks like a duck....it must be duck. I'll go with that until more information comes to light. Had someone decided to shoulder their weapon, it is my belief that there would be casualties on both sides and we would be having a very different conversation. I'm glad that is not the case.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
I am glad your dictatorial Governor was intimidated. There was no "racism" in that demonstration. In years to come, your state will sued and lose. Don't wonder why your taxes will increase.
 

SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
5,494
And as adopted by the early American Militia.;)
Most of them were leftovers from Colonialization. At Williamsburg VA the reconstructed Governor's Palace is decorated wall to wall, floor to ceiling with Brown Bess muskets that belonged to one of the Governors. When he came to America as a retired British Officer he brought his personal Arsenal of thousands of Brown Bess Muskets and other weapons with him to arm the "local home guard" Militia with and they have been maintained and are displayed on the walls of the house/Palace. The Colonial Army mostly preferred their own personal rifles over the Musket which was a "Stand in formation to fire a volley" weapon with not a lot of ability to hit a defined target by aiming at it. A superiority through numbers firepower type of weapon that delivered deadly volleys of 69 caliber lead balls in the general direction of the enemy. Sometimes loaded "Buck and Ball" with first buckshot and then a ball on top to hold the buck in place until fired to produce a murderous close-range volley. With a single ball it had a max effective range of ~250 feet but still deadly.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
30,689
I most certainly am. I have never been in favor of giving the public permission to own assault weapons or handguns.
Keith
I remember growing up in UK where you never saw a gun of any kind except, maybe a farmer owning a 12g for e.g.
To this day, the English Bobby does not carry a firearm. ;)
Ironically I was on the rifle team when I did my 2yr conscription where we used the old Lee Enfield .303 bolt action.
When i came to Canada I saw them on Gambles sports counter, clearance for $30.00.! o_O
But those day are no longer around, fortunately.
Max.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
22,083
I am glad your dictatorial Governor was intimidated. There was no "racism" in that demonstration. In years to come, your state will sued and lose. Don't wonder why your taxes will increase.
I think you have it wrong if you think Gov. Whitmer was intimidated. AFAIK she extended the lockdown until the end of May. Whachoo smokin'?
 

SamR

Joined Mar 19, 2019
5,494
There have been more Elephants killed with the .303 British than any other firearm. I actually have one of the US-made Lend-Lease ones. I hope the ones you had on the rifle team were much more accurate than mine is. It is relegated to "Wall Hanger" status due to being hard to hit the broad side of a barn with.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
30,689
There have been more Elephants killed with the .303 British than any other firearm. I actually have one of the US-made Lend-Lease ones. I hope the ones you had on the rifle team were much more accurate than mine is. It is relegated to "Wall Hanger" status due to being hard to hit the broad side of a barn with.
That what separates the 'shooter' from the Marksmen! :p
Max.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
11,087
I think you have it wrong if you think Gov. Whitmer was intimidated. AFAIK she extended the lockdown until the end of May. Whachoo smokin'?
Just wait until a bunch of greedy lawyers sue. Then watch the results. She may claim such emergency powers, but the real test will be at least a year in coming.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
22,083
Just wait until a bunch of greedy lawyers sue. Then watch the results. She may claim such emergency powers, but the real test will be at least a year in coming.
Q: What do you call 500 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?
A: A good start

Besides, what makes you think a conservative court will go along with that argument. How much are you willing to bet on a 1 year time frame?
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
30,689
Nice, but sad to know you want the government to make all your decisions. Just don't try to spread such fascism/communist ideals to the United States. We are a free nation, and hopefully will remain that way.
Last time I checked Canada is still a democracy? ;)
We are still free to chose to elect those that share the same ideals, and shared beliefs.
Just as you are.
Max.
 

narkeleptk

Joined Mar 11, 2019
586
I apologise for being blunt but why would you want to share that story with a bunch of dedicated electrical and electronic engineers and specialists? It really has no place in our forum. If you want favorable feedback on your article, post it on some red-neck gun-lovers page.
Regards,
Keith
The post is posted in OFF TOPIC.
You are clearly over sensitive to the subject and should avoid these topics all together. Your not being blunt, your simply very rude because you do not agree with something. Why bother even opening a thread to try and have a discussion with these so called "red neck gun lovers" if your just going to get yourself all worked up and spout hatred based off your personal feelings?
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
22,083
Nice, but sad to know you want the government to make all your decisions. Just don't try to spread such fascism/communist ideals to the United States. We are a free nation, and hopefully will remain that way.
Free does not mean you can go about your business while bringing harm to your fellow citizens. You know what the fix for that behavior is.
You may be free, but you can't yell fire in a crowded theater.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
22,083
Why assume just because someone chooses to own a firearm they will be bringing harm to fellow citizens? I think you assume too much here.
I was not referring to the use of firearms. I was referring to the governor of Michigan's stay at home order. The stated purpose of the protest was to have the governor rescind that order. Apparently they think their freedom to mill about is more important than saving lives. They are entitled to their opinion, but they are not entitled to a set of facts which is contrary to our experience with pandemics.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
22,083
Ah, my mistake I apologize. I deleted it then to not cause further confusion.
No problem. These are complex issues without obvious solutions. Sometime you have to press ahead, and sometime you have to fall back. In Florida we have a governor that has a different take on all of this. To me it does not matter what the governor decides to do. He can open up the entire state, and I'm not going out to a restaurant, and I'm not going to a sporting event, and I'm not going to get a tatoo, or my nails done. I will wait as long as it takes for the threat to diminish to a level where I am comfortable doing those things. That is my personal choice, and I'm OK with that. If I do have to venture out for some reason, I'm wearing a mask so if I should happen to be infected, I won't readily pass it on.
 
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