ISIL & the Mid-East

What should be done with ISIS and the Mid-East

  • Get completely out and let them fight

    Votes: 7 58.3%
  • Stay the course

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Declair all out war and destroy them

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • Draw some loose boarder based on religion and enforce them with air power

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12
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Not open for further replies.

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,130
Actions ... Not words, define the group.

I'm willing to say the majority of the Muslims are not terrorists.

However, the US still retains the right to not accept people from countries with terrorist populations.
 

R!f@@

Joined Apr 2, 2009
9,682
Since this a POLL amongst you I cannot vote. But I say this and I mean it. If ISIS comes to your country and murder innocents, then by all means, vaporize them. If they say they are Muslims do not hesitate.
I dunno if I should be in this discussion. I kept out of the other thread. As I do not intend to offend any one.
But I would like to say something. Please do not Judge me. No matter what you are all my friends. I dunno if I can address all issues from my point of view. Since I have seen there are members who has misconception on Islam and Koran.

First Quran or Koran has not errors or contradiction. If you believe it does than obviously you haven't read it. How can you say there are contradiction on something you haven't read. You believe what people say without checking the truth. Quran is the ONLY book that has not changed and it is the only book recited by millions in the same exact way. If you do not believe me check, and see it for your self. There are books that are published in countries that has errors. Even in Maldives it had happened. I believe the ones from Saudi are correct, since they are proof read to confirm there are no errors. They proof read every single book coming out of the press. I have one that came from Saudi. I do not trust what is printed in Maldives and I do not read phone Quran apps. A true Muslim always tries to read from an Authentic Source. I see in my country too, people reading from phone apps and they should know better. They do this because it is easy. You might hear Maldives is a 100% Muslim Country. Trust me it is not.
Do not take the wrong meaning when I ask, "How many of you have actually read the Bible from cover to cover?" How many of you consider what is written in the Bible to compare them to what is written in the Quran. If you do not take the time to clear your doubts you will believe what is not right. Why are there so many versions of the bible. Is it that God changed it from to time or Man did to suite their Agenda ?I read the bible but it does not make sense to me. Not like Quran does. I am speaking of what I feel and I am asking from you what you think. Please do not be angry. These are just questions I like to ask you. If you can clear them by all means, I will listen.

Bible or Quran, if you take what is written out of context, We all end up fighting. like what is happening now.

Quran does not say to find the non-believers and force them to become a Muslim.
Quran says to Invite them with kindness and respect and pray for them so that God will have mercy on them.

Quran does not say if they do not believe, kill them.
Quran says to leave them in peace and make peace with them. Kill them if they come to kill you.

We (a true Muslim) follow the Prophet Mohammed (SAW). We Believe in Easa (AS) or Jesus. We believe Jesus is one of the most Powerful Prophet of the Creator. We believe Maryam (Mary) is a Virgin and Jesus is her Son who is the only Man born without a Male intervention. Did you know even a for Muslim, if he is to reject even ONE Prophet, He is NOT A MUSLIM.

*Internet also misleads people about the lies comparing the Prophets. If you read and believe that, then there is nothing more I can say but may God guide your to the truth
Our Prophet (SAW) teachings. A TRUE Muslim should follow this. If he does not, even if he calls himself a Muslim, He is not.
Prophet (SAW) said you will not kill a women, a child, a prisoner of war, and you shall not harm those who surrender. And you shall not kill for no reason (innocents)
Prophet (SAW) said not to destroy Plant life even at war.
Prophet (SAW) said not to harm or mistreat POW.
Prophet (SAW) said not to destroy religious buildings (like churches) of other faiths.
Prophet (SAW) said not to force Islam on to others, except, invite them.
Prophet (SAW) said be kind to the non-believer.

These are just a few. The point is that do you really think the fighting is going on between Muslims and Christians. Of course Media says that. So you believe. I have learned that Media is the main source of the Lies that people believe. A true Muslim cannot judge a non-believer cause only God knows their heart.
Why in God's name do you think committing Suicide is Jihad. Killing your self is not Jihad. It's a one way ticket to hell. You shall not kill your self. No matter what. That is the True Islamic way. Do you think only Jihad is going to war. Well, guess again. It is not. Jihad is whole lotta different than you think. Of course in old times they are fighting over those who wanted to fight them. But not these days. You are not going to Jihad when you leave your country, family behind and go die somewhere else. That is not Jihad. That is suicide, plain and simple. People who get tired of living does that. Actually Jihad means to strive for. To live. To look after your Parents. To care about yourself and others. That is Jihad.
There are people from Maldives that goes to Syria to fight and get Martyred. They take their children and their wife. Leave their old parents behind. They say there going to heaven. If you ask me they are so messed up with life and this world they just wanna end all. Most of them die and most of us think they are in heaven. I do not think so. You do not go to heaven when you go to a place that you know you will die or you will probably blow ur self up. Why not live the life that was given to you in the difficulty that you are in. Strive to live and care for your family. That is the best Jihad.
But if say we are at war in the country ones lives and there is a danger to your family, you can kill and die protecting them. I would, wouldn't you ? That is a Jihad.
You blow urself up no matter what the reason, you reside in hell forever. No virgins, no heaven. Just fire. Those suicide bombers are not True Muslims. The faith is so weak that anyone can guide them to do anything they desire. Round up couple of them and read the Quran out of context and brain wash them about heaven and virgins and you have a freakin' tickin' time bomb. Isn't this what is happening all around.

Do you know that there will be war. Nothing anyone does can change that.
And do you know that in the end of times they will be fighting with bows and arrows and swords.
Do you know that during those times there won't be an East or West.
Do you know that there will be no tech then, which leads me to believe there will be Nuclear War. (Thanks to God we won't live to see that day.)
This war will go on. Nothing we do will stop it. No arguments or discussions gonna stop it.
Do you know that Israel will occupy the Gaza strip completely. I have known and believed this years back. Look at what is happening.
If you live to see this remember these words, Israel will try to take over Palestine all the way, but they will not. Palestine will be a free state. Why do I say this. Because a free Palestine state is a sign of the end of the world. Me, I believe, you, wait and see if you live that long.
How many of you know the signs of the Judgment day ?
Do you know that Muslims and Christians will fight together against a common enemy.
Yes, a common Enemy. Which I will no say for certain reasons.
That Enemy is controlling American government. Christians could not see the truth or are you afraid to find out the truth.

There lots more but time is limited.
Read and think about it.
I dunno the real ISIS but questions is, Do you ? How do you know.? From Media ? If you believe all that Media says then you need to get your facts right. As for Media, I do not believe everything they say. Same goes for this country, they cook up all sort of horse shit and think we will believe what goes on in this country, but sadly there are those who does believe, why, they are too lazy to check the truth. All lies. Muslims needs to find the truth if they hear about something that is dodgy. It's a great sin to believe without knowing the truth
All the terrorist attack do not add up and make sense to me. What Media shows and says and days later they say something else.
Americans are being controlled by someone. I can tell. Can you ?

Side note.
I have no argument or any thing against any of you. I have known most of you for years. But you guys need to know the misunderstandings you have. If I offended anyone, let me know, I will apologize personally. And if Mod's find this post bad in any way, feel free to delete it. I will refrain from posting such and such.
 
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boatsman

Joined Jan 17, 2008
186
@R!f@@
Do you know that Israel will occupy the Gaza strip completely. I have known and believed this years back. Look at what is happening.
If you live to see this remember these words, Israel will try to take over Palestine all the way, but they will not. Palestine will be a free state. Why do I say this. Because a free Palestine state is a sign of the end of the world. Me, I believe, you, wait and see if you live that long.
How many of you know the signs of the Judgment day ?
Do you know that Muslims and Christians will fight together against a common enemy.
Yes, a common Enemy. Which I will no say for certain reasons.
That Enemy is controlling American government. Christians could not see the truth or are you afraid to find out the truth.
I wonder who that common enemy could be? Anyone have any ideas?
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
7,337
Thank you R!f@@. I have wanted to bring up your name in this type of thread but wouldn't out of respect. The Christian bible talks less about Jesus than the Koran. Has most of the same stories as the bible. I have two Muslim friends and they say the same things you do. And I would trust them with my life.

The Christian bible has been so much corrupted by different faiths to suit there own needs. It has been said that the Coptic Christian bible is probably the closest to the original meanings, but I haven't so far haven't been able to find a copy to read.

There are many on the 'right' that spread an agenda of fear, and a few on the 'left' that do the same. Some out of not knowing or willing to learn, but most from greed. When your/we are looking for the "boogeyman" we aren't paying attention to whats really going on behind the scene.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,130
The guy who does my annual emissions test is a Muslim. My last visit there he was praying and invited me to sit and give him time to finish his prayers. He thanked me for waiting and I told him I wouldn't be much a human if I didn't allow you to praise you god as you saw fit and I wouldn't much of a human if I interrupted you during your prayers.

After all, I still believe in my oath.

So far we mentioned 4 of the billions. We know there are a number, abeit a small percentage, who, by their actions, deserve the title terrorist.

We also know that all religions have various offspring, yet retain the baseline title. Every group can have a fringe element.

On a political side, when it comes to foreign affairs ... this article describes some recently declassified documents from the early 1990s. You might recognize the names of the players involved .

Genocide Under Our Watch - http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/16/genocide-under-our-watch-rwanda-susan-rice-richard-clarke/

Real time intelligence rarely has the clarity of 20-20 hindsight. Weighing the presidential agenda and real time intelligence can have unwanted results. We get back to that infamous Watergate phrase "what did he know and when did he know it." This applies to all in the knowledge chain.
 
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Thread Starter

ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
Since this a POLL amongst you I cannot vote. But I say this and I mean it. If ISIS comes to your country and murder innocents, then by all means, vaporize them. If they say they are Muslims do not hesitate.
I dunno if I should be in this discussion. I kept out of the other thread. As I do not intend to offend any one.
But I would like to say something. Please do not Judge me. No matter what you are all my friends. I dunno if I can address all issues from my point of view. Since I have seen there are members who has misconception on Islam and Koran.

First Quran or Koran has not errors or contradiction. If you believe it does than obviously you haven't read it. How can you say there are contradiction on something you haven't read. You believe what people say without checking the truth. Quran is the ONLY book that has not changed and it is the only book recited by millions in the same exact way. If you do not believe me check, and see it for your self. There are books that are published in countries that has errors. Even in Maldives it had happened. I believe the ones from Saudi are correct, since they are proof read to confirm there are no errors. They proof read every single book coming out of the press. I have one that came from Saudi. I do not trust what is printed in Maldives and I do not read phone Quran apps. A true Muslim always tries to read from an Authentic Source. I see in my country too, people reading from phone apps and they should know better. They do this because it is easy. You might hear Maldives is a 100% Muslim Country. Trust me it is not.
Do not take the wrong meaning when I ask, "How many of you have actually read the Bible from cover to cover?" How many of you consider what is written in the Bible to compare them to what is written in the Quran. If you do not take the time to clear your doubts you will believe what is not right. Why are there so many versions of the bible. Is it that God changed it from to time or Man did to suite their Agenda ?I read the bible but it does not make sense to me. Not like Quran does. I am speaking of what I feel and I am asking from you what you think. Please do not be angry. These are just questions I like to ask you. If you can clear them by all means, I will listen.

Bible or Quran, if you take what is written out of context, We all end up fighting. like what is happening now.

Quran does not say to find the non-believers and force them to become a Muslim.
Quran says to Invite them with kindness and respect and pray for them so that God will have mercy on them.

Quran does not say if they do not believe, kill them.
Quran says to leave them in peace and make peace with them. Kill them if they come to kill you.

We (a true Muslim) follow the Prophet Mohammed (SAW). We Believe in Easa (AS) or Jesus. We believe Jesus is one of the most Powerful Prophet of the Creator. We believe Maryam (Mary) is a Virgin and Jesus is her Son who is the only Man born without a Male intervention. Did you know even a for Muslim, if he is to reject even ONE Prophet, He is NOT A MUSLIM.

*Internet also misleads people about the lies comparing the Prophets. If you read and believe that, then there is nothing more I can say but may God guide your to the truth
Our Prophet (SAW) teachings. A TRUE Muslim should follow this. If he does not, even if he calls himself a Muslim, He is not.
Prophet (SAW) said you will not kill a women, a child, a prisoner of war, and you shall not harm those who surrender. And you shall not kill for no reason (innocents)
Prophet (SAW) said not to destroy Plant life even at war.
Prophet (SAW) said not to harm or mistreat POW.
Prophet (SAW) said not to destroy religious buildings (like churches) of other faiths.
Prophet (SAW) said not to force Islam on to others, except, invite them.
Prophet (SAW) said be kind to the non-believer.

These are just a few. The point is that do you really think the fighting is going on between Muslims and Christians. Of course Media says that. So you believe. I have learned that Media is the main source of the Lies that people believe. A true Muslim cannot judge a non-believer cause only God knows their heart.
Why in God's name do you think committing Suicide is Jihad. Killing your self is not Jihad. It's a one way ticket to hell. You shall not kill your self. No matter what. That is the True Islamic way. Do you think only Jihad is going to war. Well, guess again. It is not. Jihad is whole lotta different than you think. Of course in old times they are fighting over those who wanted to fight them. But not these days. You are not going to Jihad when you leave your country, family behind and go die somewhere else. That is not Jihad. That is suicide, plain and simple. People who get tired of living does that. Actually Jihad means to strive for. To live. To look after your Parents. To care about yourself and others. That is Jihad.
There are people from Maldives that goes to Syria to fight and get Martyred. They take their children and their wife. Leave their old parents behind. They say there going to heaven. If you ask me they are so messed up with life and this world they just wanna end all. Most of them die and most of us think they are in heaven. I do not think so. You do not go to heaven when you go to a place that you know you will die or you will probably blow ur self up. Why not live the life that was given to you in the difficulty that you are in. Strive to live and care for your family. That is the best Jihad.
But if say we are at war in the country ones lives and there is a danger to your family, you can kill and die protecting them. I would, wouldn't you ? That is a Jihad.
You blow urself up no matter what the reason, you reside in hell forever. No virgins, no heaven. Just fire. Those suicide bombers are not True Muslims. The faith is so weak that anyone can guide them to do anything they desire. Round up couple of them and read the Quran out of context and brain wash them about heaven and virgins and you have a freakin' tickin' time bomb. Isn't this what is happening all around.

Do you know that there will be war. Nothing anyone does can change that.
And do you know that in the end of times they will be fighting with bows and arrows and swords.
Do you know that during those times there won't be an East or West.
Do you know that there will be no tech then, which leads me to believe there will be Nuclear War. (Thanks to God we won't live to see that day.)
This war will go on. Nothing we do will stop it. No arguments or discussions gonna stop it.
Do you know that Israel will occupy the Gaza strip completely. I have known and believed this years back. Look at what is happening.
If you live to see this remember these words, Israel will try to take over Palestine all the way, but they will not. Palestine will be a free state. Why do I say this. Because a free Palestine state is a sign of the end of the world. Me, I believe, you, wait and see if you live that long.
How many of you know the signs of the Judgment day ?
Do you know that Muslims and Christians will fight together against a common enemy.
Yes, a common Enemy. Which I will no say for certain reasons.
That Enemy is controlling American government. Christians could not see the truth or are you afraid to find out the truth.

There lots more but time is limited.
Read and think about it.
I dunno the real ISIS but questions is, Do you ? How do you know.? From Media ? If you believe all that Media says then you need to get your facts right. As for Media, I do not believe everything they say. Same goes for this country, they cook up all sort of horse shit and think we will believe what goes on in this country, but sadly there are those who does believe, why, they are too lazy to check the truth. All lies. Muslims needs to find the truth if they hear about something that is dodgy. It's a great sin to believe without knowing the truth
All the terrorist attack do not add up and make sense to me. What Media shows and says and days later they say something else.
Americans are being controlled by someone. I can tell. Can you ?

Side note.
I have no argument or any thing against any of you. I have known most of you for years. But you guys need to know the misunderstandings you have. If I offended anyone, let me know, I will apologize personally. And if Mod's find this post bad in any way, feel free to delete it. I will refrain from posting such and such.
Thank you R!ff@@. Well put.
I wish you could spend more time. There is no substitute for first hand knowledge. :rolleyes:
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
6,708
Having been to the area (in operations with the 31st MEU) twice via Mombasa Kenya in the 80's during the Moi rule (a crook we supported due to the Soviets) we knew exactly the extent things would go wrong in the area if long standing tribal hatred was released. Rwanda while tragic had no direct effect on the security of the US or the West and UN involvement at the time was hopeless to stop masses of people being hacked to death. This IMO is not the case with ISIL or the ME.
 
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JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,130
I agree it's not the same as ISIL or the ME, it does however, illustrate somewhat how information is passed and the outcome. Briefings are still briefings and not the whole story.

I did find it unusual that Richard Clarke was in this mix as well as the 9-11-2001 mix. He did profusely apologize for not doing more with respect on the homeland attack.

UN involvement at the time was hopeless to stop masses of people being hacked to death.
From my read of the link, the ROE was such the UN forces were armed with small arms and were only to use them in self defense. Once the tribal leaders knew that, they could hack away with impunity.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
6,708
From my read of the link, the ROE was such the UN forces were armed with small arms and were only to use them in self defense. Once the tribal leaders knew that, they could hack away with impunity.
It was sort of like the Prime Directive, we could rescue or help foreign forces but we had briefing then to not get involved with the tribal conflict period.

BTW: We stayed at the Castle Royal back then, OK bar (with cold beer for us yanks) and a great view of the city.:D Another small piece of trivia, G Gordon Liddy's son was onboard our little yacht club in the 80's. http://soppelsainternational.com/jamesliddy.html
 
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JohnInTX

Joined Jun 26, 2012
3,940
I appreciate everyone keeping their cool here, but the last few posts were getting a little too close to the edge so I removed them. As long as that works for all of you, we'll leave the thread open.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,130
@R!f@@

Trust but verify, a phrase once spoken by Ronald Reagan.

You asked about trusting the media. I don't trust every story I see or read. Some has my BS detector freaking out. Others could have the hint of truth and need more investigation. Others can have more truth than rumor and vice versa.

The problem is we are all humans with all the human faults. The darker side of humanity, I not speaking of the hues, will interpret their religious documents in a manner others don't.

The news media now has a 24 hour news cycle and some want to be the first to report a story. In their haste, the truth could be the first casualty. The biggest story mill is the internet and social media. Fact checking is a tedious job and those stories vary from fairy tales that should have the opening "Once upon a time in a land far, far away" up through the varying degrees of truthfulness.
 

dannyf

Joined Sep 13, 2015
2,197
You asked about trusting the media.
The western media is full of propogandalists (=people who push an agenda under the disguise of "journalism"), and openly biased coverage (I once listened to a NPR reporter covering Hillary Clinton's campaign talking about how much admiration she had for the candidate).

That's on top of selective reporting: selling falsehood while everything being reported is true.
 

boatsman

Joined Jan 17, 2008
186
@R!f@@
Do you know that Muslims and Christians will fight together against a common enemy.
Yes, a common Enemy. Which I will no say for certain reasons.
That Enemy is controlling American government. Christians could not see the truth or are you afraid to find out the truth.


Would that common Enemy by any chance be the same one that has a total world population of less than 0.2% and has won at least 20% of all the Nobel prizes awarded to date?
 

R!f@@

Joined Apr 2, 2009
9,682
@R!f@@
Would that common Enemy by any chance be the same one that has a total world population of less than 0.2% and has won at least 20% of all the Nobel prizes awarded to date?
I do not know about the percentage but you really like to know who. :rolleyes:
Think Hitler. Let's leave it at that.
 
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