I have come up with this idea for learning, to create a circuit that can make one or more over voltage spikes on a 230 V mains line - of course on a safe and isolated setup with all precausions taken.

The goal is to be able to somehow effeciently and with best equipment to measure and log the spikes over durations of days.
One of the challenges will be to program so that repetitive and thus uninteresting data can be eliminated - not filling up the storage but still keeps and compress for most info as possible.

If anybody is aware of equipment that can do this and is for sale at a not astronomical price - for privateers - I am most interested.

The voltage spikes will preferable be ajustable and of duration in us and ms and with spikes in maybe above 1000 V.

Do anybody have ideas on how to create this voltage spike circuit? Using caps? Voltage doublers directly from mains? Coils and switches? All suggestions are mostly apreaciated. Thanks in advance.

 

I have come up with this idea for learning, to create a circuit that can make one or more over voltage spikes on a 230 V mains line - of course on a safe and isolated setup with all precausions taken.

The goal is to be able to somehow effeciently and with best equipment to measure and log the spikes over durations of days.
One of the challenges will be to program so that repetitive and thus uninteresting data can be eliminated - not filling up the storage but still keeps and compress for most info as possible.

If anybody is aware of equipment that can do this and is for sale at a not astronomical price - for privateers - I am most interested.

The voltage spikes will preferable be ajustable and of duration in us and ms and with spikes in maybe above 1000 V.

Do anybody have ideas on how to create this voltage spike circuit? Using caps? Voltage doublers directly from mains? Coils and switches? All suggestions are mostly apreaciated. Thanks in advance.

The old (but still occasionally used) X-10 smart home communication system used little signals on the 120 or 230v mains line in the home. I believe a simple microcontroller capacitively couples to the mains to send a signal some milliseconds after a zero-cross event.

 

What is the purpose of generating these "spikes"?
What are you trying to learn?

 

What is the purpose of generating these "spikes"?
What are you trying to learn?

As an electrician with further interest in electronics, we often meet problems where we suspect spikes being the course of a non functioning device, eg. a control unit for a whirl pool.
We install more and more transient protection equipment which would be be an obvious part to put into test.
For developing some reasonable priced measurement equipment I guess I must start soldering?

 

The old (but still occasionally used) X-10 smart home communication system used little signals on the 120 or 230v mains line in the home. I believe a simple microcontroller capacitively couples to the mains to send a signal some milliseconds after a zero-cross event.

I will be an interesting thing to test on the oscilloscope, but guess it does only bring very few additional volts. But thanks for bringing the idea. Best wishes.

 

I will be an interesting thing to test on the oscilloscope, but guess it does only bring very few additional volts. But thanks for bringing the idea. Best wishes.

My answer about x-10 was without knowing what size or duration transient is expected to be injected into the line. In any case, the idea works either way. A high value resistor is used to keep the line voltage electrically connected and able to monitor the line level vs voltage generator source. Then capacitively couple the generator to the line in parallel to the high value resistor.

This application note shows the circuitry for the 5v injector (generator) for X-10. Needless to say, be careful to anyone who tries such a thing. See bottom of page 4 (detector) and bottom of page 5 (generator).

https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00236B.pdf

You should be able to inject your transient in the same way at some higher voltages (even exceeding line voltages.

 

My answer about x-10 was without knowing what size or duration transient is expected to be injected into the line. In any case, the idea works either way. A high value resistor is used to keep the line voltage electrically connected and able to monitor the line level vs voltage generator source. Then capacitively couple the generator to the line in parallel to the high value resistor.

This application note shows the circuitry for the 5v injector (generator) for X-10. Needless to say, be careful to anyone who tries such a thing. See bottom of page 4 (detector) and bottom of page 5 (generator).

https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00236B.pdf

You should be able to inject your transient in the same way at some higher voltages (even exceeding line voltages.

Thank you for answering / clarifying the intension behind X-10. If the aim is voltages above 500 volts, would you store it on caps or generate it via transformers or third option?

 

Thank you for answering / clarifying the intension behind X-10. If the aim is voltages above 500 volts, would you store it on caps or generate it via transformers or third option?

It would depend on the goal (specifications of the spike). I would capacitively couple the spike to the "mains" supply in all cases.

If you want transients in the microsecond to one-millisecond timescale, then some sort of cap-charging system will be required and circuitry to discharge it. There are a variety of ways to create a high voltage (I assume you want a pulse and not a continuous AC over-voltage). Beyond the voltage, and width of the pulse, you'll also need to decide how much energy is in the pulse. This energy will determine what the pulse looks like across the time of the pulse. That is, is the pulse a constant high voltage (e.g. 600v) vs starting at 600v and quickly decaying to nothing during the pulse time window. If you are making a test stand of some sort, you may want to design a circuit that allows pulse voltage, duration and energy.

Lastly, you may want to define when the pulse is generated on the mains AC wave. At zero-cross, at negative peak (creating positive voltage) and positive peaks (making positive voltage) and any other combinations.

 

It would depend on the goal (specifications of the spike). I would capacitively couple the spike to the "mains" supply in all cases.

If you want transients in the microsecond to one-millisecond timescale, then some sort of cap-charging system will be required and circuitry to discharge it. There are a variety of ways to create a high voltage (I assume you want a pulse and not a continuous AC over-voltage). Beyond the voltage, and width of the pulse, you'll also need to decide how much energy is in the pulse. This energy will determine what the pulse looks like across the time of the pulse. That is, is the pulse a constant high voltage (e.g. 600v) vs starting at 600v and quickly decaying to nothing during the pulse time window. If you are making a test stand of some sort, you may want to design a circuit that allows pulse voltage, duration and energy.

Lastly, you may want to define when the pulse is generated on the mains AC wave. At zero-cross, at negative peak (creating positive voltage) and positive peaks (making positive voltage) and any other combinations.

This is very appreciated. Thank you for informing about the many details. As you probably guess, asking such question, I am only a hobbyist.

 

I can relate to three incidences of unintentional noise injection.

#1 - A friend of mine was experiencing severe hash noise on his AM/FM stereo radio. It turned out that there was a light dimmer wall switch in the room. The noise went away when the room light was turned off.

#2 - In the lab where I worked I was picking up a constant 80kHz signal on sensitive electronic equipment. The interesting fact was it only occurred during working hours from 0800-1600 hours. I fabricated a pickup coil and went on a signal hunt around the building with the coil attached to a portable oscilloscope. As it turned out, there was computer located in the lab on the floor below mine and it was always powered on when the user came in to work during the day. The switch mode power supply in the computer was injecting the annoying noise on the power lines.

#3 - Again in my research lab I experienced circuit failure at random times. I traced this to the temperature controlled soldering iron. This is a Weller WTCPT that uses Curie point magnetic tips to switch off the power to the iron when the operating temperature reached.