It always takes dreamers to push an engineers imagination.

IMHO building a new something, it always require someone thinking out of the box.

 

It's not actually my idea, I read it in this book.

Good you clarified that! Our legal department was planning to call you today.

 

IMHO building a new something, it always require someone thinking out of the box.

The example I always give is John Kennedy declaring we will put a man on the moon by the end of the decade. If he was an engineer, he would have known how much effort and luck that would take - along with money and smart engineers and pilots who are willing to take risks. A well-informed engineer never would have made that promise without a lot of hedges and contingencies.

 

I think the future still lies with solar. But in outer space, with panels orbiting the earth, perhaps forming a ring around the equator.

And said ring will reduce sunlight over the rain forests, reducing the oxygen producing ability of the planet. With population growth increasing the need for oxygen, we have "electrical suffocation" as a new cause to rally behind.

 

A well-informed engineer never would have made that promise without a lot of hedges and contingencies.

And yet a good leader knows what his team is capable of when it's pushed to its limits

 

And said ring will reduce sunlight over the rain forests, reducing the oxygen producing ability of the planet. With population growth increasing the need for oxygen, we have "electrical suffocation" as a new cause to rally behind.

Not really, it would be seen as a very thin line on the sky. A ring only one km wide at geostationary orbit would be capable of delivering twice the energy being consumed today in the world, considering current technology efficiency, if I remember correctly.

 

And yet a good leader knows what his team is capable of when it's pushed to its limits

And, a good leader knows that you should leave a back-door on any claim you make. In my experience, the executives who justify a project are not around by the time the project is implemented - when the market is already saturated by faster movers his cost-cutting redesigns needed to justify the project are not allowing the new plant to meet capacity promises. Note that Kennedy said, "end of the decade", not end of his 8-years in office. It would have been easy for him to blame his successor if the targets were not met - "every thing was on schedule when I left office".

 

Note that Kennedy said, "end of the decade", not end of his 8-years in office. It would have been easy for him to blame his successor if the targets were not met - "every thing was on schedule when I left office".

Good point...

 

Not really, it would be seen as a very thin line on the sky. A ring only one km wide at geostationary orbit would be capable of delivering twice the energy being consumed today in the world, considering current technology efficiency, if I remember correctly.

That is inefficient because the incident light would be about 25% of available light. You would be much better off making a circumpolar ring and having the ring face the sun. That way, there would be no visible 1km band in the sky.

Also, why would it have to be geostationary? A moving coil (relative to a ground-based receiving station) is much easier to transmit the energy and the 22k mile geostationary orbit distance will be a huge hit to efficiency vs 100 or 200 miles.

 

And why don't people giving this argument ever include the fossil fuel subsidies?

Fossil fuel subsidies reached $90 billion in the OECD and over $500 billion globally in 2011.[3] Global renewable energy subsidies reached $88 billion in 2011.[4] Taking into account the price difference offered to developing countries of the fossil fuels (in many developing countries, fossil fuels are sold below the regular price), then as of 2015 fossil fuels are subsidised with an estimated additional $550 billion per year

From - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

I must be on joeyd's ignore list now. I have said a couple of years ago on this forum, solar and wind power will only become "mainstream and practical" when big oil and coal decides to enter it.

 

That is inefficient because the incident light would be about 25% of available light. You would be much better off making a circumpolar ring and having the ring face the sun. That way, there would be no visible 1km band in the sky.

Also, why would it have to be geostationary? A moving coil (relative to a ground-based receiving station) is much easier to transmit the energy and the 22k mile geostationary orbit distance will be a huge hit to efficiency vs 100 or 200 miles.

This is getting interesting... Ok, let's consider circumpolar. I'm no astrophysics expert, but wouldn't there be serious gravitational tidal forces to consider, mainly effected by the moon? Perhaps an equatorial ring (not necessarily geostationary, as you say) would be better suited to withstand such forces.

As for efficiency, it would all depend on economics, and the impact the technology would have on the ground.
The book I read stated that the most suitable form of transmission to ground could be microwaves, in which case they could be focused like lasers to receiving stations on the ground. That way transmission efficiency would not be affected too much by distance. Of course, this is all mere speculation, but it's fun to envision the possibilities.

 

I must be on joeyd's ignore list now. I have said a couple of years ago on this forum, solar and wind power will only become "mainstream and practical" when big oil and coal decides to enter it.

Not yet. But you are persona non grata until you backup or retract your libelous claims about Mr. Sowell's alleged bigotry. That you refuse to says much more about you than me.

 

Re space power: the druids make all kinds of noise about the microwatts of power emanating from a modern cellphone. You think they'll stand by peacefully and allow terawatts to be transmitted to the surface of the earth? Not likely.

 

That you refuse to says much more about you than me.

And for you to not see it says more to me about you. But it has been that way for quite a while.

 

Re space power: the druids make all kinds of noise about the microwatts of power emanating from a modern cellphone. You think they'll stand by peacefully and allow terawatts to be transmitted to the surface of the earth? Not likely.

Of all the political problems, I think that would be the least of them. The main issue would be the "fair distribution" of the generated power, and the enforcement of payment by the subscribed nations.

Just look at how hard it was (and still is) to coordinate the nations involved in the construction and operation of the ISS... the ISS is nothing compared to what it would take to build that thing, both technologically and politically.

 

That is inefficient because the incident light would be about 25% of available light. You would be much better off making a circumpolar ring and having the ring face the sun. That way, there would be no visible 1km band in the sky.

Also, why would it have to be geostationary? A moving coil (relative to a ground-based receiving station) is much easier to transmit the energy and the 22k mile geostationary orbit distance will be a huge hit to efficiency vs 100 or 200 miles.

The problem with a non-geosynchronous orbit is that you don't have a fixed point on the ground to deliver the energy to. You would thus need a string of receivers on the ground close enough together to pass the energy from one satellite to the next.
That would be a real problem over sparsely populated areas and oceans.
Or you would have to shut the satellites down over such areas, negating some of the advantage of a polar orbit.

The 22k mile distance has little effect on efficiency, as long as the antenna can focus the beam to a small enough area on the ground, since free space does not attenuate EM waves.

 

Came across this little bit of food for thought out there.
Max.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Schumpeter
Schumpeter coined the term "creative destruction" to describe a lot of this.