Fail-safe startup isolation of an H-bridge

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,254
I've been using for a while now the HCPL-9030 as 5VDC to 90VDC isolators (they work through magnetic coupling, and not optically) to drive the inputs of an IR2101, which in turn are being used to drive the gates of 4 nFets in an h-bridge.

I like those isolators because they perform quite well at high frequencies. Problem is, that I found that they're a bit fragile and susceptible to small voltage spikes and will occasionally malfunction. Even worse, they will latch and might cause a catastrophic short circuit between the high and low nFets on the same side of the bridge... I speak from personal experience on this (more on that later, on a different thread)

After doing some searching, I found that the 6N137 optoisolators might be just the ticket. They're capable of handling high frequencies, just as I want. But the problem is that they have an open collector output, and they work using inverted logic (which is a characteristic of all optos that I'm familiar with). And therefore are turned on by default when they're powered up, and will only turn off after current starts flowing through their internal LED.

Question, is there a way to connect these optos in such a way that they will always be off by default when they're powered up on the isolated side, but their internal LED is not yet energized? These chips feature an enable pin, but it also works using inverted logic, and I can't fathom how I could take advantage of that.

To be clear: I want all four nFets to remain off after power is applied to their drivers and to the isolated side of the optos, but not yet to their LEDs. Or better yet, it would be ideal if the isolator's output could be inverted without a glitch being suffered during power up.
 

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MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,688
The MOC8106
After doing some searching, I found that the 6N137 optoisolators might be just the ticket. They're capable of handling high frequencies, just as I want. But the problem is that they have an open collector output, and they work using inverted logic (which is a characteristic of all optos that I'm familiar with). And therefore are turned on by default when they're powered up, and will only turn off after current starts flowing through their internal LED.
I generally use the MOC8106 for H bridge and IR2110 etc.
You can usually invert the output of a opto by using the emitter side instead of the collector.
But just about all the ones I have ever used are off until the diode conducts?
Max.
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,254
The MOC8106

I generally use the MOC8106 for H bridge and IR2110 etc.
You can usually invert the output of a opto by using the emitter side instead of the collector.
But just about all the ones I have ever used are off until the diode conducts?
Max.
Ah! Your chip can be used as an open emitter. That changes everything. Only problem I see with it is its speed.
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,254
I think I've got it. I placed a transistor in an inverted way at the opto's output, and it seems to be working.

Capture 01.PNG

After simulating startup with no power applied to the input, there's a small 1/2 V spike during the first couple of µ seconds, but it stabilizes after that. Half a volt is not enough to trigger the 2101, so it should be fine.

Capture 02.PNG
 

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Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,254
As per @OBW0549 's suggestion, I have inverted (or rather, straightened) Q1. I tried to visualize current flow when I made my first arrangement. And although it does work, it does so in a partial way and it's not the best way for it to be done.

Now that I've rearranged things, the startup pulse is shorter and smaller than on my first try. My last doubt now is, are the values I used for R2 and R4 optimal?


upload_2019-1-2_8-57-22.png

upload_2019-1-2_8-58-44.png
 
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Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,254
There. I had to design and improvise a small adapter for the PCB I've already built, to substitute the HCPL9030 with the 6N137, including the 3904 transistor (of which I had several of those in their SMT version laying around, thankfully) and pull up resistors to convert its output into a non-inverting type. I haven't tested it yet, but I'm fairly optimistic it's gonna work alright.

@Papabravo , you once mentioned that you liked the work I did on my PCBs. Well, let me show off a bit :cool:. This PCB is probably the tightest and densest I've ever had to put together using all the tools I have available.


01.PNG

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03.PNG

04.PNG
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,254
Hi C, do you have a part number and source for that board you used? Or is it one of your own design? Thanks
The board is of my own design and making. And it's a rather meticulous piece of work. Why do you ask? Would you like me to post the layout and parts list here? I'd be perfectly ok with that, but I haven't done it because I don't think that what it does is a big deal.
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,254
And by the way, I've already tested the board and it's performing beautifully. It's doing exactly what I wanted it to do. Many thanks to all for all your help.
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,254
Here's an image of the board mounted on the H-bridge PCB:

Image00001.jpg

I had to adjust the resistors installed between the drivers and the nFet's gates to a very unusually high value so as to minimize EMI. I'll be explaining that later on in its appropriate thread.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,045
The board is of my own design and making. And it's a rather meticulous piece of work. Why do you ask?
I was wondering where I could buy a bare board like that, not the complete finished one. That looks like it would come in handy. Good looking bare board and finished. Thanks for letting me know.
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,254
I was wondering where I could buy a bare board like that, not the complete finished one. That looks like it would come in handy. Good looking bare board and finished. Thanks for letting me know.
If you're ever in the need of a special board similar to that one, just PM me and I'll see what I can do to help you out.
 
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