Extending an Led and a Micro Switch

Thread Starter

E-Newbie

Joined Jun 28, 2007
21
Hello folks,

I really hope someone can help me please. Im basically trying to extend an led and a small switch to about 2 meters, I have a circuit (just a wireless doorbell) It has a button and 2 smd leds, I need to replace the 2 leds with 1 * 3mm led and the switch to the normal doorbell switch, I was hoping someone could help me with some idea on how to do this please?

At the moment, the doorbell is a wired doorbell that I am having to change the 9v battery in every 2 days because I added an led to it, I like the look of the bell so I didn't want to change the outside fascia, I then changed it so the led is powered using the circuit from a outdoor solar light, so in the night it lights up and the main bell works with a 9v battery however again im having to change the battery every 4 days instead lol... So my idea was to replace the bell with a wireless bell however use the fascia of the old switch/bell, it has a clear ring that lights up. The wireless bell that I bought has two small leds that light when pressed and ive assumed if I unsolder these and replace them with a 2 meter wire connected to the 3mm led I have the small 12v 23A battery the bell has would die after about 2 rings, so I just wanted a better solution.

I just dont know enough about electronics to figure out how to do this, I did think of something like a small relay that when the button is pushed the led circuit on the new bell fires this and that turns on a separate circuit with just the led a resistor and a 9v battery, however dont know if this is the correct way to accomplish this

I really hope this all makes sense and I hope someone can help :)

Thank you
 

Thread Starter

E-Newbie

Joined Jun 28, 2007
21
Good idea however I was trying to ditch the wires which are about 6m going from the switch to the bell and then I would have to add additional wires from the bell to the nearest socket which I think is another 4m away :( I was trying to avoid that I thought it would be better just to keep the switch that matches the door have a shorter cable to a box at the back of the door about 1.5 - 2m away and keep all the guts and circuitry in there and have the wireless door bell plugged in another room
 

AnalogKid

Joined Aug 1, 2013
8,140
That is called a tact switch, very low cost, surprisingly reliable. To confirm that it is a standard type, First, with no power applied and without pushing the button, measure the resistance between the upper two pins. Also measure the resistance between the bottom two pins. The photo is pretty fuzzy. If you can see clearly that the upper two pins are soldered to the same trace, you can skip that step. Same for the bottom two pins.

Next, measure the resistance between the two right side pins. Then hold in the button and measure between the two right side pins again.

ak
 

Thread Starter

E-Newbie

Joined Jun 28, 2007
21
Hello thank u I dont know if this is a better picture???

Resistance between upper 2 legs - 0 ohms
Bottom legs - 0 ohms
Top and bottom without button press - closed
Top and bottom with button press - 0 ohms

I wanted to use about 2m of cat 5 cable or alarm cable as I have rolls of that lying around for the leds if possible I just need one larger led rather than the 2 0845 size leds (think their 0845) lol

Sorry couldn't take a pic under the scope I dont have a trinocular scope
 

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dendad

Joined Feb 20, 2016
3,080
The switch is...
AAC_20180404.jpg

If you are wanting the LEDs to run all the time, a much larger battery is needed, or a power plug pack.
I don't see the advantage of switching to a wireless one. The small 12V batteries in them are very low capacity.
Can you please explain again what you are wanting to do. I am confused as you said you has a wired doorbell and wanted to change the switch to a wireless one. At least I think that is what you said.
Both ends need to be changed.
If battery life is a problem in whatever way you go, get a holder for C or D cells to make up the volts required and go with them. That will give a vast increase in battery life.
Use high intensity LEDs running on low current so they are bright enough.

But I am still a bit mystified on what you are actually trying to do.
Can you draw a block diagram or circuit or something to explain it?
 
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dendad

Joined Feb 20, 2016
3,080
I have added a wireless door bell to my wired one.
AAC_20180404_2.jpg
The actual drive to the solid state relay will depend on your wireless push button.
It is powered from the existing 9V transformer. The added LED lights up the case.
This allows me to use the inbuilt door bell still, but have wireless one also.
AAC_20180404_3.jpg
Here i a picture of the innards.

The wireless receiver also is modified to have a relay that operates and switched an alarm to my workshop.
As well as all that, I have a light beam array across the driveway to trigger an alarm in the house and it it hooked on to the doorbell feed to my shed/workshop. As I work out there it is handy to get an alarm when someone comes up the drive.
 

Sensacell

Joined Jun 19, 2012
2,452
I yearn for the olden days... when doorbells just worked- forever.

Now it's a crap shoot.

Is the battery dead?
Is the receiver plugged in?
Are the units in range?
Did any of this crazy stuff get wet?
Oops- just missed a really important delivery, cost me my job... vacation... spouse... yeah, wireless is soooo convenient.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
3,662
SO: The original, unmodified doorbell system consisted of the door bell chime (herein referred to as "Chime") and a hard wired door bell button (herein referred to as "Button"). The chime was powered via a 9 volt battery. I'm assuming the button (with the LED's) would only light up when the button was pushed.

THEN: You modified the system by adding an LED to the button so that the LED was on at all times. Am I correct?

GOAL: You want to change from a hard wired button to a wireless button. Here's where I'm getting a little confused; you said you like the look of the original button and don't want to replace the facia. So I'm assuming you want to put the wireless button guts into your existing facia. Again, am I correct?

The wireless button operates on a 12 volt battery.

MY CONFUSION: You want to add six meters of wire to - um - what? Help me here, I'm a little lost. If you're replacing a hard wired button with a wireless button then why are you adding wire? What's the purpose of the wire? What are you wiring it to? Or do I have the whole thing backwards? Are you keeping the button but adding a wireless chime?

Can you give us a block diagram of what is there as well as a diagram of what it is you desire to accomplish?
 

Thread Starter

E-Newbie

Joined Jun 28, 2007
21
lol, sorry for the confusion, I will try to draw a diagram lol please give me a few minutes...

When I bought the house the bell didn't work however I liked the look of the button, I had to rewire the original switch and bell to make it work, its an old style electromagnetic bell with a thing that hits metal plates, the bell is about 6 meters away from the door and I had to rip the UPVC panel off the door frame to rewire it...

The button on the door looks cool and matches the house and it has a small clear plastic ring around the button, so I thought to myself wouldnt it be cool to make that ring light up, so I added an led and a resistor to the switch and 4 core wire to the bell, I connected 2 wires to the bell and 2 wires to the battery for the led, it lit all the time, however the battery died all the time, the other problem was I needed the bell to be heard in another room which it just wouldn't and the mechanism for the bell itself would sometimes get stuck.

I then re-routed the 2 wires from the led to a solar powered garden light outside, which would power the led when it was dark and would charge its internal AA battery during the day when it was sunny (im in the UK so its never sunny) this worked for the led however the rechargeable battery went on the solar panel and the battery on the bell itself I still had to keep replacing it too often.

So final plan was to run a short 4 wires from the button outside to this wireless bell switch, 2 of the wires for the switch and 2 of the wires for the led, this time the led would only light when the button was pressed (not all the time or just at night like the other 2 methods) as I could run a shorter cable to this I could place it by the door itself and have it in a position to easily change the batteries etc... I just wanted to know if the amps could be boosted for the led so that a bigger led with a 2m wire could be powered or any other method for doing this lol
 

Thread Starter

E-Newbie

Joined Jun 28, 2007
21
Im not sure if this diagram I made helps lol...

Basically just trying to keep the aesthetics of the doorbell trigger/switch I currently have but making it more convenient to change the batteries, get them to last longer and having less wires going through the house etc...
 

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Thread Starter

E-Newbie

Joined Jun 28, 2007
21
Tonyr1084: "So I'm assuming you want to put the wireless button guts into your existing facia. Again, am I correct?"

This is what I would like to do however, I dont have enough space in the door frame or the existing fascia to fit the guts of the new wireless button... The old fascia that I want to keep and use fits flush with the door frame with the wires going through the frame etc all the wires are sealed within the UPVC door frame, I have access to the wires for the button at the bottom of the door frame about 1 to 1.5m away from the button itself, the old button/fascia looks similar to the image below, which matches the door and style of the old house.
 

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Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
3,662
First, I'm assuming the LED on the button has its own resistor. If it doesn't then you'll need to add one. As for the switch, yeah, the way you've drawn it - that will work. I'm wondering if there's enough voltage across the switch to light the LED without having to put an extra power source. As for using a relay - that probably won't work. It MIGHT, but I doubt it. I could be wrong.

If I were to attempt your approach then rather than using a relay I'd use a MOSFET. The relay may draw more power than you want to from your original circuit board. And trying to power the relay across an LED - that's what makes me think this won't work.

Give me some time and I'll do up a drawing and post it.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
3,662
OK, here's what I'm thinking: Use the original power supply (assuming it still works). Whatever voltage it is - the door bell button must already have a resistor to protect the button LED. I'm assuming that the button was illuminated until the button was pushed. So somehow it was shorting the LED and providing sufficient power to the solenoids that struck the chimes. Wire that to a relay of the same operating voltage. Common (C) and Normally Open (NO) get wired to the new push button. When you push the door button the relay will energize and trigger a ring same as it would if it were hard wired directly to the new doorbell.

I'm willing to bet you could figure a way to connect the existing wires directly to the wireless doorbell chime. But I'm guessing at that.

Here's my drawing:

Wireless Doorbell Mod.jpg
 

Thread Starter

E-Newbie

Joined Jun 28, 2007
21
Hello thank u so much for all ur help ur diagram is way more professional than mine lol

That's exactly what I'm trying to do however I'm trying to avoid a mains power supply as the circuit is to be in a small enclosure next to the door itself and there are no power sockets around near there... I've not used a mosfet before, I suppose before I go further I should just check if it all works and powers the led and the button works if I just go ahead and extend them with some cables lol whats the worse that could happen
 

ebeowulf17

Joined Aug 12, 2014
2,945
That's exactly what I'm trying to do however I'm trying to avoid a mains power supply as the circuit is to be in a small enclosure next to the door itself and there are no power sockets around near there...
I'm not clear on what the doorbell wiring was before you started messing with things, much less what's left of the original wiring now, but...

Traditional wired doorbells have a transformer, as indicated by Tonyr, which was located nowhere near the door. In my experience the transformer was usually mounted to the bottom of a floor joist, accessible from the basement. Then, skinny (18 gauge, maybe smaller?) low voltage wires ran all over the house as needed to reach the various doors and chimes.

If you had a traditional, working, wired doorbell when this whole project started, you probably have all the power you need, available in the form of safe, low voltage AC on the skinny doorbell wires.

Examples of what I'm used to seeing:
IMG_5076.JPG IMG_5075.JPG
 
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