Experiment on neodymium - changing the magnetic field at home

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,049
lets make the recipe simple:
Heat your Neodymium at pre-heated oven at +80C for a couple minutes
let the piece cool down
Did you even read the link I posted earlier? https://www.first4magnets.com/tech-...mation-i82/how-are-neodymium-magnets-made-i90

The 80*C isn't going to make an existing magnet loose it's magnetism completely. It will only make it non-magnetic for the moment, as it cools back down the magnetism resumes like it originally was. That is how *Currie point* works. Currie Point was used to judge proper temperature in heat treating steel, before the advent of modern temperature probes and measurement, when the steel became non-magnetic it was at the correct temp to quench. It didn't make the steel non-magnetic after it cooled down.


make a coil around/inside/over/ through (as your desired magnetic config) it with thick copper, the more winding the best...
If you read that link you would have seen where it also says you HAVE to restrain the part being magnetized when doing this. If you don't you are making a dangerous form of a *coil gun*. The part will be shot out of your coil at high speed and force. Again from step #6 in the link - https://www.first4magnets.com/tech-...mation-i82/how-are-neodymium-magnets-made-i90

You really need to be doing more research on this before you hurt your self or an innocent bystander.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,456
Only the "big resistor" part does not work. Just a short touch with the big wire to the big battery, because that burst of magnetism only needs to be a few MILLISECONDs, not even long enough for a fuse to pop. But DO wear safety glasses and do not look at the spark.
 

Thread Starter

ShlomoShtudi

Joined Aug 31, 2020
11
Did you even read the link I posted earlier? https://www.first4magnets.com/tech-...mation-i82/how-are-neodymium-magnets-made-i90

The 80*C isn't going to make an existing magnet loose it's magnetism completely. It will only make it non-magnetic for the moment, as it cools back down the magnetism resumes like it originally was. That is how *Currie point* works. Currie Point was used to judge proper temperature in heat treating steel, before the advent of modern temperature probes and measurement, when the steel became non-magnetic it was at the correct temp to quench. It didn't make the steel non-magnetic after it cooled down.




If you read that link you would have seen where it also says you HAVE to restrain the part being magnetized when doing this. If you don't you are making a dangerous form of a *coil gun*. The part will be shot out of your coil at high speed and force. Again from step #6 in the link - https://www.first4magnets.com/tech-...mation-i82/how-are-neodymium-magnets-made-i90

You really need to be doing more research on this before you hurt your self or an innocent bystander.
I try it a couple of times, about 100C the magnet becomes a total brick!! if you don't believe try yourself...

i make the coil like a toroidal along my 1.5 inch neodymium ring, so it will rotate?
 
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Thread Starter

ShlomoShtudi

Joined Aug 31, 2020
11
Only the "big resistor" part does not work. Just a short touch with the big wire to the big battery, because that burst of magnetism only needs to be a few MILLISECONDs, not even long enough for a fuse to pop. But DO wear safety glasses and do not look at the spark.
OK thanks, that i also know from experience (with a pulse battery recovery thing, that one time i connected wrong, or a battery tester that i tested in the wrong setting, one terminal evaporated 1/4 a inch, but after that the tester still worked LOL)
 

Thread Starter

ShlomoShtudi

Joined Aug 31, 2020
11
So... i continued making my research and i found that it will be better and safer to make much more turns, that will boost the magnetic field and maybe make a milder spark.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,049
will boost the magnetic field and maybe make a milder spark.
Where do you think this *spark* will come from? If you are doing this correctly and safely there should never be a spark. When magnets are magnetized in a factory they don't use any type of sparking device.

Jump ahead to around 10 minutes -
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,456
When magnets are produced in a factory the setup is a production setup, which is both durable and repeatable.. When an experimenter is doing a one-time experiment and there is no need for a production setup. So a spark from a wire touching a terminal is quite OK, if adequate precautions are taken.
Being chained to every fear must be miserable.
Understanding what one is doing and what will be happening is the alternative. So one spark happens, that is quite correct.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,049
Understanding what one is doing and what will be happening is the alternative. So one spark happens, that is quite correct.
So you would be willing to do this with the voltage and current required, as shown in the video?

Being chained to every fear must be miserable.
I have very little fear of anything or any one. It is my understanding that the rules of the forum are NOT to promote dangerous things. When a well known maker/seller of neo-magnets says not to do this type of thing, and gives the reason. I tend to believe them. Your insistence of promoting dangerous things is why I disagree and call you out so much.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,456
I have done things like this with the setup I have described. I did not look at the video because it is obviously not similar to what I described. I am not talking about producing some monster magnet. This is a half-second 200 amp pulse. Of course there is some spark because of making a momentary contact that is similar to what happens when one magnetizes a wrench or screwdriver. The high current pulse lasts less than a second and so the wire only gets warm, not hot. CERTAINLY it is wise to wear gloves, although it has also been done with only a shop towel for spark protection. And sometimes it takes a few tries because of not looking at the point where the contact is made.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,049
Well that may work when magnetizing a piece of steel, but not according to all references I can find on Neo-magnets. The old magneto remagnetizer one engine machine shop I worked for in my younger days, used if I remember right 120 volts through a bridge and into a big(biggest I had ever seen back then) capacitor and was triggered through an old Ford starter solenoid. And thos were only Alnico magnets. Neo-magnets take much more voltage and amperage, again from what is online. The magnetic force needs to be 3 times what the final strength of the magnet ends up.

While the TS has never said what pole configuration he's after, I have my doubts it can be made using a toroidal coil, like he thinks.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,456
I have avoided mentioning the needed arrangement of coil and flux directing steel pieces in hopes that others would bring up that part of the project. Certainly the flux has to be directed to the locations that have been chosen for the magnet poles, and that is probably the hardest part of the project. If the coil has 20 turns and the current gets up to 200 amps then that is 4000amp-turns, I think, and that should be obtainable with a 12 volt automotive battery for quite a few milliseconds. And in that short time nothing is going to catch fire. It will be quite a spark, but done intentionally it should not be so frightening..
 

Thread Starter

ShlomoShtudi

Joined Aug 31, 2020
11
I have avoided mentioning the needed arrangement of coil and flux directing steel pieces in hopes that others would bring up that part of the project. Certainly the flux has to be directed to the locations that have been chosen for the magnet poles, and that is probably the hardest part of the project. If the coil has 20 turns and the current gets up to 200 amps then that is 4000amp-turns, I think, and that should be obtainable with a 12 volt automotive battery for quite a few milliseconds. And in that short time nothing is going to catch fire. It will be quite a spark, but done intentionally it should not be so frightening..
Actually will be 52.8v 200amp with a 12 o 10 gauge copper well coated wire.
 

Thread Starter

ShlomoShtudi

Joined Aug 31, 2020
11
I have avoided mentioning the needed arrangement of coil and flux directing steel pieces in hopes that others would bring up that part of the project. Certainly the flux has to be directed to the locations that have been chosen for the magnet poles, and that is probably the hardest part of the project. If the coil has 20 turns and the current gets up to 200 amps then that is 4000amp-turns, I think, and that should be obtainable with a 12 volt automotive battery for quite a few milliseconds. And in that short time nothing is going to catch fire. It will be quite a spark, but done intentionally it should not be so frightening..
The arrangement is toroidal so it will be a one time arrangement, but the coil if it still intact, will be useful for the second part of the experiment (purposely omitted, naive nonsense one, like the zero point energy blah blah).
It's so weird why i can't found info about such magnetic arrangement... (maybe is a "can't ever work" one).
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,456
The reason that there are not comments about magnetic flux paths and propagation is that it is a subject that most folks never need to deal with on a design basis. We copy what somebody who knows has done and say thank you, because it is not simple. There are a number of standard considerations but the theoretical basis for them is not simple. So there are experts in the field but I am not one of them.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,049

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,049
If the coil has 20 turns and the current gets up to 200 amps then that is 4000amp-turns,
Means nothing to the world of permanent magnets. Since force in them is measured differently, like in Gauss or Tesla's, etc. So he needs to figure how much strength he needs, pick a original magnet using that measurement, then find a way to electrically make a force ~3 times stronger. And not all neo-magnets are the same base force or created equally to start with.
 
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