# Does electricity really need a return, a closed path for it to flow?

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
I am about to say something perposterous.
I say that electricity in fact flows in open circuit and it does not need a return, close path.
I say that all a return path does is that it merely concertrates the flow, channels it so to speak.
Where did this idea come from and popped in my head? From the statement below.

If it was true that it needed a return or close path, a battery will never so called discharge. It will never de-energize.
Energy is moving in and out of the environment. It is everywhere already.
When we so called harness energy, all we are doing is concentrating it. Like gathering a bunch of money from everywhere and put it in a peggy bank.

I say you can turn a light bulb on by merely supplying it with voltage, say you connect one end of the supply to the bulb and the other end of the supply to some large insulated metal structure ( like your car). And the other end of the light bulb to say another car. And your light should turn on.
Based on my perposterous statement that is.

#### Ya’akov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
9,267
What do you mean by:

If it was true that it needed a return or close path, a battery will never so called discharge. It will never de-energize.
Also, what do you mean you can:

turn a light bulb on by merely supplying it with voltage, say you connect one end of the supply to the bulb and the other end of the supply to some large insulated metal structure ( like your car). And the other end of the light bulb to say another car. And your light should turn on.
If in the first case you mean self-discharge then you need to look into why that occurs. It is not because of current flowing from the terminals, it is because of chemical reactions inside the battery.

I can't even guess at the meaning of your second statement. Could you clarify?

[EDIT: Fixed a typo and added clarifying words]

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#### MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
31,094
Does electricity really need a return, a closed path for it to flow?

#### crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
34,847
I say you can turn a light bulb on by merely supplying it with voltage, say you connect one end of the supply to the bulb and the other end of the supply to some large insulated metal structure ( like your car). And the other end of the light bulb to say another car. And your light should turn on.
Based on my perposterous statement that is.
Based upon the preposterous statement, possibly.
In reality, no.

#### boostbuck

Joined Oct 5, 2017
572
After advancing an hypothesis, the next step is to conduct an empirical demonstration to provide supporting evidence. Have you connected a lightbulb and two cars as you suggest and seen evidence supporting your statement?

#### BillB3857

Joined Feb 28, 2009
2,571
Don't walk in an open field in a thunderstorm!

#### BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
9,296
What is you explanation for the fact that, after a century and a half of thousands of scientists and engineers doing experiments, no one else notice tha current flows with a closed circuit.

Bob

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
What is you explanation for the fact that, after a century and a half of thousands of scientists and engineers doing experiments, no one else notice tha current flows with a closed circuit.

Bob
=============================
I can't tell if I am happy or unhappy with what I am about to report.
I hooked up ten 9 volt batteries. One end of it to a red typical LED and the other end of it the batteries to the ground of the household powe line.
The other end of the LEDto a large heavy sheet metal.
The LED came on but it was extremely weak and I was not happy how weak it was.
First I thought it was the Sun's reflection. But I was wrong as I was able to toggle it off and on.
Because it was terribly weak I blamed my wires especially the one that I had between the battery and the LED.
So I changed to heavier wires.
What happened next belongs in some whatever movie.
I got nothing, nothing at all.

An hour later it came to me to check the LED and the LED was toast.. Suddenly it was no good. Howabout that?
I then took a new yellow LED. Tested it to make sure. It was shining at 2 Volts
I hooked up Seven 9V batteries. I don't know it was an interesting number I guess. One end to my trailer and truck and the other end to them 2 large metal sheet panel.
I got nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Wait a minute, let me check that dog gone yellow LED. All of a sudden it just hit me.... oh my. Hang on.

Weird. Strange.
So here I am. I am sitting here and reading everything and am thinking.. something is saying something.
.......
What?
......
Have I supplied too much darn voltage that for whatever forsaken reason the LED is toast before it even has a chance to give me a glitter of light.....
I will reduce the batteries to 1, then to 2 and see what happens.
Here I go back to nothing and I will report my nothings.......
Or maybe something.
I don't care... worse come worse I will read some insults.
Oh by the way this centuries stuff means nothing to me. It just means it is centuries stuff that gone by. That is all.
Just ask Einstein at the time he was saying things like the ones before him.

Okay, the fact that the red and yellow LED got toast, is one thing. For whatever reason. Maybe they were on their last breath, I don't know.
Why the red LED showed sign of faint light. 4 to 5 times until I unhooked everything and then I got nothing. I don't know.
But now with a new Blue LED and one battery at a time up to 7 batteries, truck/trailer and sheet metal. I got nothing.
And LED is good at this present moment that I am back in the house having supplied it with just 2.5 volts.
{ it is hard for me to believe that I was seeing things with the red LED and no there was no connection between the ground power line and the sheet metal.
Dang maybe I should do that same circuit with the blue LED.. Here I go again... Just when I thought I was done....
Maybe there was some connection due to the moist ground (even though the sheet metal was over the gravel and the ground line.)... hmmm..
Maybe I have too much time on my hand...
Was I seeing things or was there at that moment in time the ground line and the sheet metal and the moisture were in series.
I will get to the root of this...whatever a person wants to call it...

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#### boostbuck

Joined Oct 5, 2017
572
I'm impressed that you proceeded to perform an experiment. Well done.

Unfortunately it seems from your report that there are too many unknown variables for you to reliably draw any conclusions.

Now you need to refine your experimental procedures to bring your result to the point of reproducibility. Then I (or others) can challenge your hypothesis by testing.

Good work.

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
I'm impressed that you proceeded to perform an experiment. Well done.

Unfortunately it seems from your report that there are too many unknown variables for you to reliably draw any conclusions.

Now you need to refine your experimental procedures to bring your result to the point of reproducibility. Then I (or others) can challenge your hypothesis by testing.

Good work.
==================
Up there I just added to my report as you were typing.
And by the way, I rather be the testing dummy, it is the only thing that satisfy me.

#### Delta Prime

Joined Nov 15, 2019
1,311
What is you explanation for the fact that, after a century and a half of thousands of scientists and engineers doing experiments, no one else notice tha current flows with a closed circuit.

Bob
I can tell you for a fact that the electronic technician that set up, calibrated and conducted the experiments did notice! He may not have known what the heck was going on but he noticed...

#### LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
4,311
It's "probably" true that there are ways to generate or use
a generally unrecognized "Electrical-Phenomenon" that has been buried for centuries.
But, it also is probably in a form that nobody would ever guess
based on our current level of understanding of the Universe.

In the mean-time,
if it can't be utilized and controlled in a useful manner,
that ordinary people would find valuable,
it's rather a moot-point.

I would say to never stop looking ...........
If nobody is asking "stupid-questions", and trying crazy things,
there's a ton of useful technology that has zero chance of ever being revealed.
.
.
.

#### k1ng 1337

Joined Sep 11, 2020
1,037
It's "probably" true that there are ways to generate or use
a generally unrecognized "Electrical-Phenomenon" that has been buried for centuries.
But, it also is probably in a form that nobody would ever guess
based on our current level of understanding of the Universe.

In the mean-time,
if it can't be utilized and controlled in a useful manner,
that ordinary people would find valuable,
it's rather a moot-point.

I would say to never stop looking ...........
If nobody is asking "stupid-questions", and trying crazy things,
there's a ton of useful technology that has zero chance of ever being revealed.
.
.
.
If you are familiar with the ancient astronaut theory, there are great monolithic stones placed all over the world that would require cranes and earth moving equipment to place. Sits such as as puma punku and tiwanaku display similar engineering marvels hard to accomplish today. (Resonating chamber) pyramids are another example where advanced mathematics are clearly applied to the structure itself, the ratio of its dimensions and its geographical alignment. This is clear evidence to me ancient knowledge was at work. Of course these claims are difficult to say the least for myself to verify, none the less interesting.

#### xox

Joined Sep 8, 2017
838
If you are familiar with the ancient astronaut theory, there are great monolithic stones placed all over the world that would require cranes and earth moving equipment to place.
You'd be surprised what ancient humans were actually capable of. I have seen Peruvians drag massive boulders using handmade cables, constructed from mere grass. A team of hundreds or even thousands can be linked together to form a sizable force. Things like levers and pulleys were also used by ancient humans (not to mention a whole host of other amazing technologies that they were able to "muster and master" to one degree or another).

But just the idea that an alien civilization would care to come to our planet in the first place, then decide to help us build structures for some unknown reason, and then simply move on to carry out their galactic "missionary work" elsewhere...it all just seems so pretentious.

Just think about how difficult it is for an organism to leave the confines of its home planet in the first place. Much less the probability that they could possibly discover a propulsion technology which WE, by the way, haven't yet come close to achieving. And then only to spend (aeons?) in space traveling to some distant planet. For what?!

Even assuming that they could, most statistical models actually predict that any possible alien encounter would most likely be of the hostile nature. In other words, more of a "knocking down of structures" kind of encounter...

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
The fact that I saw the RED led come on, I was not hillucinating.
And by whatever ( as if it has to be me that it must happen to, go figure) the LED was toast and not because suddenly it decided not to cooporate.
And mind you for whatever the heck reason, same with the yellow LED.
But if the whatever thinks that would stop me...? I don't think so.
The blue LED.... nope, no light and it did not croak on me.

So am I to think that what I saw was my own active imagination because it is what I wanted to see.....?
Not so fast.
Since the yellow and the blue led was in a different setting and it was not in the same exact circuit as the RED led... that is all it took for me to get to it. It was enough to uproot the nonsense.
The red LED had lit up indeed.

Here is how it works.
I made it clear that I had hooked up the battery to the ground of the of the power line. Stay with iiiiiiiiit.
"Ground of the powerline= Earth".
The cathod of the red LED to the metal sheet sitting on gravel/dirt mixture. Are you following me?
It took ten 9 volt battery to push current through the dirt to light up a compromised red LED.
It is finished.
I took the blue LED and having connected to just two 9 volt battery and it was as bright as it gets. As I placed a wooden board between the sheet metal and the gravel..... waaaaiiiit for it. No light.

I used just one 9 volt battery and drove two conduits in to the dirt roughly two foot apart.
Connected one side of the battery to one conduit and the cathode of the LED to the other conduit...
You can finish my statement.
Over and out.

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
It's "probably" true that there are ways to generate or use
a generally unrecognized "Electrical-Phenomenon" that has been buried for centuries.
But, it also is probably in a form that nobody would ever guess
based on our current level of understanding of the Universe.

In the mean-time,
if it can't be utilized and controlled in a useful manner,
that ordinary people would find valuable,
it's rather a moot-point.

I would say to never stop looking ...........
If nobody is asking "stupid-questions", and trying crazy things,
there's a ton of useful technology that has zero chance of ever being revealed.
.
.
.
==========================
Mystery solved once again by me.
I hate it when I solve my own stuff but the reason is not what you think.
It needed to be stand alone comment. It is either above or below this reply.

#### Alchemy One

Joined Oct 5, 2019
217
It's "probably" true that there are ways to generate or use
a generally unrecognized "Electrical-Phenomenon" that has been buried for centuries.
But, it also is probably in a form that nobody would ever guess
based on our current level of understanding of the Universe.

In the mean-time,
if it can't be utilized and controlled in a useful manner,
that ordinary people would find valuable,
it's rather a moot-point.

I would say to never stop looking ...........
If nobody is asking "stupid-questions", and trying crazy things,
there's a ton of useful technology that has zero chance of ever being revealed.
.
.
.
====================
Mystery solved. Find my stand alone comment here.
I am satisfied. I was not hillucinating when the red led was lit. I had to deal with the fact that the LED, as faint as it was, was real and it bothered me.

#### MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
19,466
Batteries discharge without external connections by a very well known mechanism commonly called "self discharge." Within the battery exists both a conductive path between terminals and also an ongoing chemical reaction.
Unfortunately that path serves not only for the desired current to flow out to some load, but also back to the other terminal. Thus self discharge.
Also, the chemical reaction producing voltage does not stop, and so eventually all the ingredients react.

And then the most broadly applicable fact that the TS has totally not discovered is this: Just because you do not see something, nor understand what it is that you are not seeing, does not at all mean that it does not exist.
The most obvious example is the wind. We can not see it, but we can feel it and see what it is causing.
The Second obvious example is heat: also not seen but very much real and very easy to detect.