That's mistaken. Liberalism advances by using law to reduce personal freedom and liberty.

How do you see numbers 9, 10, 11 & 12 in the list above? Are those increasing peoples personal freedoms?
I think it is much closer to the chart I posted.

 

How do you see numbers 9, 10, 11 & 12 in the list above? Are those increasing peoples personal freedoms?

First of all, those are alleged excerpts of the Republican platform, which has nothing to do with a political ideology. You can't conflate conservatism with Republicanism. There's some overlap in the Venn diagram, but they're distinct. But more importantly, those "excerpts" are imaginary. I just downloaded the GOP platform and skimmed through it. The term "LGBT" doesn't appear even once.

If you want to claim those items are part of the platform, you'll need to show us where you read between the lines to tease them out.

 

I just read post #35. About 6 or 7 of those do not fall under the heading, "Screw the poor and powerless."

 

I just read post #35. About 6 or 7 of those do not fall under the heading, "Screw the poor and powerless."

Or "Prey upon the weak"...

 

First of all, those are alleged excerpts of the Republican platform, which has nothing to do with a political ideology. You can't conflate conservatism with Republicanism. There's some overlap in the Venn diagram, but they're distinct. But more importantly, those "excerpts" are imaginary. I just downloaded the GOP platform and skimmed through it. The term "LGBT" doesn't appear even once.

If you want to claim those items are part of the platform, you'll need to show us where you read between the lines to tease them out.

Overturn the Supreme Court’s 2015 decision to legalize gay marriage in all 50 states.

Marriage is between “one man and one woman” (pg. 31), and Republicans “do not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial reconsideration or a constitutional amendment returning control over marriage to the states.”

 

I don't want to mislead you. A lot of the things in the platform are there to satisfy the religious right, Christian right, or bible belt. Whatever you choose to call them. To win the republican nomination you need these states.

A lot of the same states really hated the civil rights act and will probably not forgive the Dems for a long time.

 

A thought...if a liberal wants lots of laws, from what point of view is that liberal?
If my parents are liberal with their rules, I would have more freedom to go where I want and come home when I want.
If I pretend for a moment that I am in the ruling class, then I might believe in being liberal with my behavior. That is, I am liberated to write lots of laws and impose them on people I don't know. If I am a conservative government, I am conservative in the use of my power.

Am I anywhere near the truth?

 

...from what point of view is that liberal?

"Liberal" is just a word that has been coopted by communists/socialists/progressives that sounds better (i.e. less radical) than C/S/P. It is a thorough bastardization of its original meaning, Classical Liberalism.

 

Original liberals were mostly anti-religion (think the so-called french enlightenment, which was promptly followed by The Terror)... they wanted to liberate people of their retrograde and superstitious beliefs, according to their way of thinking.

 

Original liberals were mostly anti-religion...

Pro-reason would be more accurate.

 

A thought...if a liberal wants lots of laws, from what point of view is that liberal?
If my parents are liberal with their rules, I would have more freedom to go where I want and come home when I want.
If I pretend for a moment that I am in the ruling class, then I might believe in being liberal with my behavior. That is, I am liberated to write lots of laws and impose them on people I don't know. If I am a conservative government, I am conservative in the use of my power.

Am I anywhere near the truth?

Maybe not so clear cut. They each like different rules.
Here is what I think is a good description and the link with a little test that it comes from.

Liberals usually embrace freedom of choice in personal matters, but tend to support significant government control of the economy. They generally support a government-funded "safety net" to help the disadvantaged, and advocate strict regulation of business. Liberals tend to favor environmental regulations, defend civil liberties and free expression, support government action to promote equality, and tolerate diverse lifestyles.

https://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/quiz.php

 

That's mistaken. Liberalism advances by using law to reduce personal freedom and liberty. It seeks to impose the brilliant ideas of central planners that know better than the people, what is good for the people. You can't have liberalism without control and you can't get control without laws.

“From time to time we’ve been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. But if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else?” - Ronald Reagan's inaugural address

Doesn't this line from the above, "Liberalism advances by using law to reduce personal freedom and liberty." Come closer to describing the GOP since Reagan? They are good at passing laws or trying to pass laws that take away hard fought rights that weren't originally in the Constitution but were 'voted' in "by the people". Trying to project their views on the population at large.

 

Doesn't this line from the above, "Liberalism advances by using law to reduce personal freedom and liberty." Come closer to describing the GOP since Reagan?

Again, I don't see the two parties as anything other than businesses vying for market share. The GOP post-Reagan has definitely moved away from conservatism. It's tough to tell, but Trump may be another step in that direction.

I can't think of a great example right now, but I'm sure we could point to Republicans that have supported things I would call liberalism. But as @joeyd999 pointed out, my use of the term "liberalism" is synonymous with "statism", the elevation of state power at the expense of the individual. The term has been co-opted and no longer means what it once did.

 

Pro-reason would be more accurate.

there are religions out there that are pro-reason too..., besides... it was the founders of the enlightenment that came up with the stupid idea of calling the middle ages "the dark ages", which was a blatant historical lie

 

Overturn the Supreme Court’s 2015 decision to legalize gay marriage in all 50 states.
Marriage is between “one man and one woman” (pg. 31), and Republicans “do not accept the Supreme Court’s redefinition of marriage and we urge its reversal, whether through judicial reconsideration or a constitutional amendment returning control over marriage to the states.”

And this relates to your items 9-12 how?

I'd like to see where in the Constitution the Supreme Court is given the right to define words for us, usurping the right of the people to do this for ourselves.

 

The term has been co-opted and no longer means what it once did.

same applies to conservatism...

 

same applies to conservatism...

Probably, but I don't think it's the 180° turn that "liberal" has gone through.

The part of conservatism that is compelling to me is constitutional conservatism. I don't care much about what religious conservatives care about, but to me the constitution is crucial for defining how we individuals are to be treated by our government. It's a contract. We can change the contract by the methods described within it, but unless/until we do, it's the law. Period. So much that's wrong in this country can be traced to having no legal foundation in the constitution.

 

And this relates to your items 9-12 how?

I'd like to see where in the Constitution the Supreme Court is given the right to define words for us, usurping the right of the people to do this for ourselves.

Well, I'm not going to play word lawyer with you, but it seems pretty clear to me that what is in the platform would indeed propose to take away rights from lesbians and gays.
Overturn the Supreme Court’s 2015 decision to legalize gay marriage in all 50 states.
There would be no need for them to define words if some people didn't want to take other peoples rights away.

 

What I a have come to see regarding a Conservative Vs a Liberal is how they handle themselves in similar life situations. Especially so since the last election outcomes.

In an argument or debate,

A conservative will stand their ground and firmly back up their claims with what they see to be reputable facts and data as they can or have to use but ultimately if they can be proven wrong concedes and accepts the new information to be correct if it adds up and even implement it into their life afterwards.

A liberal however will typically just use one or two basic poorly defined points to defend their view and use them over and over even once they and those points have been solidly proven wrong. After that they won't concede but will switch to full insane idiot troll mode and will sacrifice everything they have and are respected for in a poorly thought out attempt to now force the opposing and proven correct side to submit by lies, intimidation and threat.

A conservative can be proven wrong and take it with honor and dignity.
A liberal can never be proven wrong and has no honor or dignity in defending that belief.

 

What I a have come to see regarding a Conservative Vs a Liberal is how they handle themselves in similar life situations. Especially so since the last election outcomes.

In an argument or debate,

A conservative will stand their ground and firmly back up their claims with what they see to be reputable facts and data as they can or have to use but ultimately if they can be proven wrong concedes and accepts the new information to be correct if it adds up and even implement it into their life afterwards.

A liberal however will typically just use one or two basic poorly defined points to defend their view and use them over and over even once they and those points have been solidly proven wrong. After that they won't concede but will switch to full insane idiot troll mode and will sacrifice everything they have and are respected for in a poorly thought out attempt to now force the opposing and proven correct side to submit by lies, intimidation and threat.

A conservative can be proven wrong and take it with honor and dignity.
A liberal can never be proven wrong and has no honor or dignity in defending that belief.