in order to get any usable power from ambient sources, you would have to know the frequency of those sources, make an antenna resonant at those frequencies, and such. anything that picks up all sources has no control over the phase of the incoming signals. some phases add and some cancel. differing frequencies simultaneous without any tuning add and cancel randomly. so if your right next door to a high power transmitter, put up an antenna and tune it to the transmitter frequency.

 

I've played around with using common TEC's as simple thermo electric power cells for years. For smaller experimental stuff they seem to work very well!

I made a simple demonstrator device for a local elementary schools science lab some years ago out of a old 20 watt TEC from some old computer CPU cooler. To give you basic idea of it all it was was a pair of heat sinks, one black anodized aluminum about 1.5" square and the other ~3" square clean aluminum CPU cooler, which by placing the black hot side in a pan of hot water and hand full of crushed ice or snow on the other it would produce around 1.5 volts at about 1 amp of usable current. Basically it was a thermally powered D battery which to kids is pretty impressive!

Since then I have played around with other such larger designs with some cheap 16 volt 160 watt TEC's and just by using one good sized dark heat sink and one light colored heat sink it is possible to get at least several tens of milliwatts of output from nothing but the thermal differences caused by the two heatsinks dissimilar rates of thermal absorption and radiation. More so it you set it in the sun or mount it on a window and use the indoor to outdoor temperature differentials.

If I use my boilers 180 -190 degree water jacket temp and the average 50 - 60 degree boiler room air temp as the primary thermal differential it's easy to get several volts and 1 - 2 amps or better of usable power.

If you guys have never played with TEC devices I suggest spending $20 or on eBay and pick up one or two larger sized ones to experiment with. You won't be disappointed.

 

and save the planet from 'climate change'.

What climate change? Yeah, I know you know it is only another attempted money grab via some idiotic carbon tax.

 

Some people think a million educated engineers have not tapped into this flow of, "free" energy because they merely overlooked it. This gold mine is just waiting for some lucky person to discover it.

I'm not one of those. I'm fairly new to all of this and I don't want to merely read about the early pioneers as they discovered things. I'd rather start at the beginning as they did and feel the excitement as they surely did back then. I feel that to begin to understand things and how they work it is important to start at the beginning with the same wonder and 'what if' feelings, thoughts and questions. It is all quite fascinating to me and I don't want to lose that fascination.

 

I'm not one of those. I'm fairly new to all of this and I don't want to merely read about the early pioneers as they discovered things. I'd rather start at the beginning as they did and feel the excitement as they surely did back then. I feel that to begin to understand things and how they work it is important to start at the beginning with the same wonder and 'what if' feelings, thoughts and questions. It is all quite fascinating to me and I don't want to lose that fascination.

That is complete BS. If, in fact that is what you plan to do, then go into the woods, grab a shovel, get some dirt, stones, and tree flesh and begin your "research." Germanium diodes are a few thousand years down that path. Do you have time for that?

John

 

I've played around with using common TEC's as simple thermo electric power cells for years. For smaller experimental stuff they seem to work very well!

I made a simple demonstrator device for a local elementary schools science lab some years ago out of a old 20 watt TEC from some old computer CPU cooler. To give you basic idea of it all it was was a pair of heat sinks, one black anodized aluminum about 1.5" square and the other ~3" square clean aluminum CPU cooler, which by placing the black hot side in a pan of hot water and hand full of crushed ice or snow on the other it would produce around 1.5 volts at about 1 amp of usable current. Basically it was a thermally powered D battery which to kids is pretty impressive!

Since then I have played around with other such larger designs with some cheap 16 volt 160 watt TEC's and just by using one good sized dark heat sink and one light colored heat sink it is possible to get at least several tens of milliwatts of output from nothing but the thermal differences caused by the two heatsinks dissimilar rates of thermal absorption and radiation. More so it you set it in the sun or mount it on a window and use the indoor to outdoor temperature differentials.

If I use my boilers 180 -190 degree water jacket temp and the average 50 - 60 degree boiler room air temp as the primary thermal differential it's easy to get several volts and 1 - 2 amps or better of usable power.

If you guys have never played with TEC devices I suggest spending $20 or on eBay and pick up one or two larger sized ones to experiment with. You won't be disappointed.

It was always the temperature differential aspect that kept me away from messing with the TEC's. Yet after dismantling an older flat screen TV today I discovered several useful parts including aluminum heat sinks and one of them happens to be black. Also, oddly enough there was a huge and somewhat heavy chunk of cast aluminum inside the plastic stand of the monitor for some odd reason. Seems like a waste of good aluminum when any other metal could have been used in there but I wasn't complaining when I found that much aluminum in that inconsequential part of the broken TV!

 

That is complete BS. If, in fact that is what you plan to do, then go into the woods, grab a shovel, get some dirt, stones, and tree flesh and begin your "research." Germanium diodes are a few thousand years down that path. Do you have time for that?

John

It's not complete BS. I did many other things before starting at what many now would call the beginning here in this modern age. Everything is relative when you get right down to it. By the way, I've lived in the woods in the past and it is amazing what you can do with what nature provides. As a matter of fact, everything we work with came from the earth after all... unless one happens to be working with meteorites that came from someplace beyond or solar or EMF waves from space and the like. By the way, I found it humorous that you said 'grab a shovel'.

 

It's not complete BS. I did many other things before starting at what many now would call the beginning here in this modern age. Everything is relative when you get right down to it. By the way, I've lived in the woods in the past and it is amazing what you can do with what nature provides. As a matter of fact, everything we work with came from the earth after all... unless one happens to be working with meteorites that came from someplace beyond or solar or EMF waves from space and the like. By the way, I found it humorous that you said 'grab a shovel'.

Everything on Earth came from the dust of another star system. What's your point? We are billions of years past that!

My friend, you are a troll. While AAC doesn't allow anyone to change a passenger compartment glove box light, it apparently has no problem tolerating trolls. I do. If AAC wants to pander to your type, that is its decision, not mine. We are the beneficiaries of modern science. Not all of it is accurate, for sure. It is as good as we have. Your wholesale rejection of it will lead to nowhere. I have no time for that.

John

 

I have to consider whether jpanhalt is right.

Characteristics that resemble an internet troll:
Is expressly on a modern science website to not learn modern science.
Uses up the good will of modern people by repeatedly asking them to explain centuries old methods and materials.
Refuses all advice and pursues his own agenda, unaltered by mere facts.
Posts prolifically whenever a trivial and long dis-proven theory passes through his mind.

I don't know if you need seventeen points to prove a fingerprint in a Court of Law, but this is enough to convince me.

 

Well, apparently my honest curiosity has gotten me into trouble yet again. When I was really little way back when my favorite books were the Curious George books. I suppose I haven't changed much and all I'm trying to do is learn. I'm not a label anyone may wish to apply. I'm a human being with feelings and frankly those feelings are not picking up very good vibrations at the moment. If you met me in person I don't imagine your assessment would be nearly as harsh, if it were harsh at all. I don't know what else to say.

 

I don't want to merely read about the early pioneers as they discovered things. I'd rather start at the beginning as they did.

all I'm trying to do is learn.

You want to start at the beginning and try to learn? That's as contradictory as trying to go back to cave people and learn how grunts and howls turned into English by asking some website full of dictionary writers and English History scholars to explain the etymology of every word for you and why your imaginary scenario for how each word developed is wrong.

Other people might want to entertain you, but I believe you are distracting them from the purpose of this site.

Meet you in person? I once had a friend like you. He spent his time fantasizing about medieval times, chivalry, and knightly honor. He wanted to go back to the beginning and learn from there. This is 45 years later and he is still an unemployed high school dropout with no practical skills.

 

Your honest curiosity may be the one thing that has kept things going here. I think we all have a soft spot for folks looking to learn.

Consider the rest constructive criticism. As far as I'm concerned, you're welcome around here. Just as we're welcome to stay silent if we don't want to participate. I ignore a lot of threads for a lot of reasons.

 

Everything is relative when you get right down to it.

Uh, no. When you get right down to it there are some pretty well documented absolutes. They are what separate science and engineering from magical thinking.

ak

 

how about using the heat from the exhaust to boil a liquid to run a "steam engine" to take some of the load from a car engine, like run the alternator and such?

every time energy is transported from here to there or changed from one form to another there are losses and inefficiencies. To go from the exhaust gas through a heat exchanger to a fluid that then boils and goes through a piston or turbine to turn something is very inefficient in and of itself, and way worse than a belt or chain connected directly to the crank shaft. For energy transfer from one rotating system to another, nothing beats contact.

ak

 

every time energy is transported from here to there or changed from one form to another there are losses and inefficiencies. To go from the exhaust gas through a heat exchanger to a fluid that then boils and goes through a piston or turbine to turn something is very inefficient in and of itself, and way worse than a belt or chain connected directly to the crank shaft. For energy transfer from one rotating system to another, nothing beats contact.

ak

but it is somewhat dificult to connect a belt to the exhaust. why not use waste heat that would just go out the tailpipe for something?

 

but it is somewhat dificult to connect a belt to the exhaust. why not use waste heat that would just go out the tailpipe for something?

I think the point is that it makes better sense to design an efficient machine in the first place than to recycle energy that needn't be wasted after the fact...

Best regards
HP

 

even power plants have added energy recovery systems to their plants. do we all have to wait for someone to come up with an extremely expensive new car to get more efficiency? can nothing be done to recover waste heat from cars that already exist, while waiting for blue sky ideas that nobody is trying?

 

Many kinds of energy conversion are possible, but most of them are not practical in a particular application. Auto exhaust gas is what, 100 degrees above ambient? That might be good for something, but not for making electric current by creating steam to turn an alternator. TECs are very inefficient, but at least they don't require a constant supply of purified water.

ak

 

even power plants have added energy recovery systems to their plants. do we all have to wait for someone to come up with an extremely expensive new car to get more efficiency? can nothing be done to recover waste heat from cars that already exist, while waiting for blue sky ideas that nobody is trying?

From a practical standpoint I sympathize with your argument -- and that's a sorry comment upon industry... Although I'm not an automotive engineer it is my understanding that fully 2/3 of the energy derived via combustion is lost to (i.e. dissipated by) the exhaust and cooling systems with a rather small fraction of the remaining third ultimately applied to motion of the vehicle aye! aye! aye!
Best regards
HP

 

There is a lot of wasted energy generated right here on AAC.
There's got to be a way to harness the energy from all this hot air.