Hi! I apoligize for the not-so-descriptive title, but I had a hard time figuring out a good one. Anyways, I was wondering if it would still be possible to efficiently run electricity through Kanthal after it has been melted as long as it is in a hermetically sealed environment and there is a sufficient supply of power. I know that the resistivity changes as metals are heated up, but I don't remember if it increases or decreases. Im curious to find out if kanthal can be pushed past its limits temperature-wise to create a super-heated enclosure. Also, dont worry about contacts or housing melting inside the kanthal, awg of said kanthal, or anything like that because Im just asking a theoretical question. I dont have sufficient power to test this because my 120v 15a breaker keeps flipping whenever I try.

For anyone who doesnt know, kanthal A-1 is a type of resistance metal, like nichrome.

 

What is canthal?

 

What is canthal?

Whoops my apoligies. I misspelled it. I meant kanthal A-1. Its a type of resistance metal like nichrome.

 

Attached is the data sheet for Kanthal A-1; if the information you seek exists, it is probably in there somewhere.

As for resistivity, Kanthal (like nichrome) has a very low temperature coefficient of resistance.

 

Thanks I really appreciate the help!

 

Whoops my apoligies. I misspelled it. I meant kanthal A-1. Its a type of resistance metal like nichrome.

Fairly sure its one of the materials used for e-cigarette coils - but then its not a precision resistor application.

 

From the specification sheet it looks like the resistance increases by 5% as it is heated to 1400 degrees. That is quite hot, by the way. It also expands as it is heated and is claimed to melt at 1500 degrees.
I do not recommend running electrical power through metal melted and over 1500 degrees, because it will be very hard to contain and if you spill it you will start a fire at the least. And electrically charged hot liquid metal can do lots of damage in a really big hurry.

 

From the specification sheet it looks like the resistance increases by 5% as it is heated to 1400 degrees. That is quite hot, by the way. It also expands as it is heated and is claimed to melt at 1500 degrees.
I do not recommend running electrical power through metal melted and over 1500 degrees, because it will be very hard to contain and if you spill it you will start a fire at the least. And electrically charged hot liquid metal can do lots of damage in a really big hurry.

DW if I were to ever do this experiment, I would make sure to create a hermetically sealed enclosure out of some heat resistant material like aluminum silicate. Also I work with both high voltage/current and metalworking so I know the risks as well as the safety procedures. ^^

 

You would not need a hermetically sealed container, only one adequate to protect against a splash of molten metal. And the vapors would not likely be much of a hazard. When I see something that is definitely dangerous I am obligated to mention that danger, regardless of if the hazard is obvious or not. So please do not be offended by my suggestion about the hazards.
My other question is "why do this?"

 

You would not need a hermetically sealed container, only one adequate to protect against a splash of molten metal. And the vapors would not likely be much of a hazard. When I see something that is definitely dangerous I am obligated to mention that danger, regardless of if the hazard is obvious or not. So please do not be offended by my suggestion about the hazards.
My other question is "why do this?"

I apoligize. I did not mean to offend you. I was unaware of your obligations.

In terms of the container, I would like the container to be hermetically sealed so an inert gas can be filled into it to prevent the molten metal from vaporizing (like with tungsten).

Also, I would like to do this in order to create heating cells, mostly for metallurgy.

 

No offense taken, I was just explaining why I provided the cautionary comments.
Heating for metallugy is an interesting challenge in that the temperatures need to be controlled fairly closely and sometimes rapid cooling or heating may be needed. Also, I had forgotten about metal vaporizing, I try to avoid those high temperatures because they can damage my metal tools. I predict challenges in containing the liquid Kanthal alloy, unless you can find some glass material with a much higher melting point. I suggest considering a ceramic tube instead, because of greater melt resistance and better mechanical properties. But there is still the challenge of closing off the ends of the tube. That may require custom made ceramic plugs. But that is an area beyond what I know about.
The most interesting experiment that I have seen was producing iron from ore with a serious electric arc. Just a ladle full of what I think was ore and an electrode of some kind above it and a quite serious arc drawn to the ladle from a bit above. Also it was sort of noisy, which is what got my attention initially.

 

No offense taken, I was just explaining why I provided the cautionary comments.
Heating for metallugy is an interesting challenge in that the temperatures need to be controlled fairly closely and sometimes rapid cooling or heating may be needed. Also, I had forgotten about metal vaporizing, I try to avoid those high temperatures because they can damage my metal tools. I predict challenges in containing the liquid Kanthal alloy, unless you can find some glass material with a much higher melting point. I suggest considering a ceramic tube instead, because of greater melt resistance and better mechanical properties. But there is still the challenge of closing off the ends of the tube. That may require custom made ceramic plugs. But that is an area beyond what I know about.
The most interesting experiment that I have seen was producing iron from ore with a serious electric arc. Just a ladle full of what I think was ore and an electrode of some kind above it and a quite serious arc drawn to the ladle from a bit above. Also it was sort of noisy, which is what got my attention initially.

Wow that really is an interesting experiment! Do you possibly have a link to the thread? I'd really like to check it out!

Considering the melting point of aluminum silicate, you're probably right about looking for a more resistant material. Ive had experiences in the past where once the kanthal had exceeded its maximum temperature, it would actually meld with the aluminum silicate and cause the power requirement to skyrocket, which would immediately trip the breaker. I have to do a lot more research before conducting this experiment which is why this whole deal is just a theory for now. Id be more than happy to update once I have everything in order if you're interested!

 

Wow that really is an interesting experiment! Do you possibly have a link to the thread? I'd really like to check it out!

Considering the melting point of aluminum silicate, you're probably right about looking for a more resistant material. Ive had experiences in the past where once the kanthal had exceeded its maximum temperature, it would actually meld with the aluminum silicate and cause the power requirement to skyrocket, which would immediately trip the breaker. I have to do a lot more research before conducting this experiment which is why this whole deal is just a theory for now. Id be more than happy to update once I have everything in order if you're interested!

The melting iron from iron ore was something that I saw long before the internet was even invented, back in 1977. Neither the lab, the building, nor the campus exist any more, and that company has changed ownership quite a few times. So the path back to any of that has not only been erased, but the folks involved are probably long gone. Sorry about that bad news.

 

The melting iron from iron ore was something that I saw long before the internet was even invented, back in 1977. Neither the lab, the building, nor the campus exist any more, and that company has changed ownership quite a few times. So the path back to any of that has not only been erased, but the folks involved are probably long gone. Sorry about that bad news.

Its alright! It sounds like the project might have been part of an arc furnace design of some sort. Thats really cool that you've had involvment with laboratories such as that! If I had that kind of accessibility, I feel like I could vastly improve my knowledge in electrical circuitry design! Most of my knowledge is based on projects and experiments conducted by experienced engineers on various websites and how-to's.

 

Its alright! It sounds like the project might have been part of an arc furnace design of some sort. Thats really cool that you've had involvment with laboratories such as that! If I had that kind of accessibility, I feel like I could vastly improve my knowledge in electrical circuitry design! Most of my knowledge is based on projects and experiments conducted by experienced engineers on various websites and how-to's.

Actually, I was walking by in the hallway and I heard the loud arcing and saw the bright light shining out the doorway. I was not even involved with that department, just passing through. But the tech doing the work did like to talk.

 

Actually, I was walking by in the hallway and I heard the loud arcing and saw the bright light shining out the doorway. I was not even involved with that department, just passing through. But the tech doing the work did like to talk.

Ah I see. What department were you in?

 

Ah I see. What department were you in?

At that time I was in the Electronic Fuel Metering applications development group. I was the testing development engineer. EFM was the alternative to electronic fuel injection. It used an interesting double rectangular port throttle body with the 3D throttle blades forming a variable linear venturi, and a spray bar squirting fuel into the very highest velocity portion of the air stream. It also had an accurate fuel flow meter and an accurate air flow meter. The original computer system was all analog, to make it even more exciting. But it never saw production, mostly because they got a much better price on fuel injectors. But it certainly was an interesting project for two years. That was in Highland Park, building 128, if you know about that complex. Later I moved to the fuel systems area, when the computer went digital, and I worked in the quanset hut building. It was built that way so that if aoll of the fuel inside exploded it would not damage the rest of the complex.

 

Huh! Thats really interesting! Maybe ill look into that at some point. Ive never heard of the highland park district, but I'll certainly take a look on google maps. Im always down for looking at places like that! Do you still work in the fuel systems area or have you retired?

 

Huh! Thats really interesting! Maybe ill look into that at some point. Ive never heard of the highland park district, but I'll certainly take a look on google maps. Im always down for looking at places like that! Do you still work in the fuel systems area or have you retired?

I was "released" when the program was cancelled.. After that I worked at much smaller companies where I had much greater responsibilities, and I got to work on much more interesting things. The buildings and that whole campus no longer exist, and that company has been taken over twice by other companies. None of it remains in Highland Park, Michigan. So you would need access to older maps, as google did not even exist as a word at that time.
After leaving that big auto company I worked at a number of companies that designed and built industrial test systems and related products. It is far more satisfying to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond than to be a minnow in the ocean. That part is for certain. Working on one small part of a car is not nearly as much fun as being part of a team of 3 or 4 creating a machine for some new task. Presently I have my own company doing assorted engineering and service for a growing list of happy clients.