Hello there,

I had recently posted a link to a pdf for download not realizing that it might be a bootleg copy. There was no indication of that, and I thought a file that came from docs.google.com would have been checked and verified in some way. Apparently, that's not the case.
I did some reading on the web after the post was removed and now it does look like a bootleg copy as the author does not look legit. It never dawned on me that could be the case.
The book is available for a lower cost used around $30 USD, but I guess it depends what site you find it on.
That's a shame it is a good book, but it's worth buying a copy if you want to study circuit analysis intently.
I happen to have a legitimate version from the past so I know the authors are very good.

I'll have to remember this kind of problem with files in the future.

 

Hello there,

I had recently posted a link to a pdf for download not realizing that it might be a bootleg copy. There was no indication of that, and I thought a file that came from docs.google.com would have been checked and verified in some way. Apparently, that's not the case.
I did some reading on the web after the post was removed and now it does look like a bootleg copy as the author does not look legit. It never dawned on me that could be the case.
The book is available for a lower cost used around $30 USD, but I guess it depends what site you find it on.
That's a shame it is a good book, but it's worth buying a copy if you want to study circuit analysis intently.
I happen to have a legitimate version from the past so I know the authors are very good.

I'll have to remember this kind of problem with files in the future.

Thanks, Al. This is excellent information. The copying of books is pervasive and some aspects may be debatable, but from the perspective of AAC it is important not to be a source for information on how to obtain unauthorized copies.

My general rule of thumb is that unless the source is the author or publisher I assume there is a problem and either move along or research things to find out the status. A recent example was with a very well known text on electronics which has been (illegally) uploaded to the Internet Archive.

The imprimatur of IA would seem to suggest it is something legit—but it’s not. A little digging finds a statement from the author that there is no authorized PDF or eBook version outside Amazon. But, the allure is certainly a strong one and it is very easy to rationalize the downloading of the book.

This is a perfect case of a key aspect of the tragedy of the commons where the rational choice to take something considering the impact of a single person on a common resource will ultimately lead to the destruction of that resource as each of a very large number of people make the same first order rationalization.

 

Thanks, Al. This is excellent information. The copying of books is pervasive and some aspects may be debatable, but from the perspective of AAC it is important not to be a source for information on how to obtain unauthorized copies.

My general rule of thumb is that unless the source is the author or publisher I assume there is a problem and either move along or research things to find out the status. A recent example was with a very well known text on electronics which has been (illegally) uploaded to the Internet Archive.

The imprimatur of IA would seem to suggest it is something legit—but it’s not. A little digging finds a statement from the author that there is no authorized PDF or eBook version outside Amazon. But, the allure is certainly a strong one and it is very easy to rationalize the downloading of the book.

This is a perfect case of a key aspect of the tragedy of the commons where the rational choice to take something considering the impact of a single person on a common resource will ultimately lead to the destruction of that resource as each of a very large number of people make the same first order rationalization.

Hi,

Yes and I never encourage downloading or using bootleg copies of anything whatever it happens to be.
What happened in this case was I was so excited to see it online mostly because I know what a good book it would be that I automatically wanted other people to be able to read it too, without thinking about where it came from. This will make me think twice from now on.
Oh and I thought docs.google had a better reputation when it came to issues like this.

Funny too I hardly ever recommend any books or anything online this was the first time in a long time, except of course for data sheets which we are lucky are free. Years ago we had to maintain a library of physical data books, but even then they were free.

 

It is interesting to note that one country's "bootleg copy" is another country's "fair use".
There are lots of interesting books available at Pearl Hifi, which they seem to believe are completely legitimate.
There is a corollary to your argument. If I buy, for example, a copy of Doug Self's excellent book on amplifier design, why should I have to pay full price for the second edition in order to obtain one extra interesting chapter?

 

It is interesting to note that one country's "bootleg copy" is another country's "fair use".
There are lots of interesting books available at Pearl Hifi, which they seem to believe are completely legitimate.
View attachment 313690There is a corollary to your argument. If I buy, for example, a copy of Doug Self's excellent book on amplifier design, why should I have to pay full price for the second edition in order to obtain one extra interesting chapter?

Hi,

That's interesting, although I have to wonder if a book that is made to be used in a college for a certain course can be copied legally even though it is for educational purposes, because after all it was designed to be used for education. If nobody bought the book the publisher would not want to publish any educational text books for schools around the world. It's kind of expensive to publish works like that these days.

 

Hi,

That's interesting, although I have to wonder if a book that is made to be used in a college for a certain course can be copied legally even though it is for educational purposes, because after all it was designed to be used for education. If nobody bought the book the publisher would not want to publish any educational text books for schools around the world. It's kind of expensive to publish works like that these days.

Our government thankfully makes is reasonably clear what is and what isn't an offence under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright#non-commercial-research-and-private-study
So, I'm quite happy to post a chapter of a book on this forum in the knowledge that I haven't broken the law. It seems rather bizarre that members from other countries can legally post rather less or rather more, depending on where they live.
Publishers of academic books know that a certain number of libraries will take whatever they publish, and they will sell very few copies to private individuals and organise the print run accordingly.

 

Our government thankfully makes is reasonably clear what is and what isn't an offence under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright#non-commercial-research-and-private-study
So, I'm quite happy to post a chapter of a book on this forum in the knowledge that I haven't broken the law. It seems rather bizarre that members from other countries can legally post rather less or rather more, depending on where they live.
Publishers of academic books know that a certain number of libraries will take whatever they publish, and they will sell very few copies to private individuals and organise the print run accordingly.

Yes I know you can post partial works online. This is almost always acceptable.

 

Oh and I thought docs.google had a better reputation when it came to issues like this.

I think "docs.google" doesn't mean what you're implying. I believe it's somebody's cloud storage, just like a Dropbox link would be. I don't think Google monitors content of user's cloud storage.

 

Our government thankfully makes is reasonably clear what is and what isn't an offence under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright#non-commercial-research-and-private-study
So, I'm quite happy to post a chapter of a book on this forum in the knowledge that I haven't broken the law. It seems rather bizarre that members from other countries can legally post rather less or rather more, depending on where they live.
Publishers of academic books know that a certain number of libraries will take whatever they publish, and they will sell very few copies to private individuals and organise the print run accordingly.

The controlling law is not that of the poster but of the legal entity owning the forum. You may be in the clear for the posting but that doesn't mean AAC is safe from repercussions. I don't think AAC qualifies for Safe Harbor under the DMCA, though copyright owners would probably behave as if they did.

In the US, fair use is a solid idea, but it can't interfere with the market for the work, must use the minimum amount of the original work that will be sufficient, be used for criticism, parody, or education, and be a "transformative" work. There's no chance a full book could be US fair use—it's just bootlegging.

 

Hi,

That's interesting, although I have to wonder if a book that is made to be used in a college for a certain course can be copied legally even though it is for educational purposes, because after all it was designed to be used for education. If nobody bought the book the publisher would not want to publish any educational text books for schools around the world. It's kind of expensive to publish works like that these days.

Fair use does not, in any way shape or form, permit you to copy an entire textbook under the claim that it is for educational use. Whether you can claim Fair Use depends on the combination of ALL four of those factors. If you are using something for educational purposes, you merely have a stronger case for claiming Fair Use that if you are using it for commercial purposes. But if you are copying a substantial portion of it, then you are more than shooting yourself in the foot on both substantiality and impact on marketability.

 

There is a corollary to your argument. If I buy, for example, a copy of Doug Self's excellent book on amplifier design, why should I have to pay full price for the second edition in order to obtain one extra interesting chapter?

Because the author chose to put new material in an edition that you didn't buy. Why should they ever put out a new edition if everything that owns an older edition things that they have the right to bootleg the new one?

 

Fair use does not, in any way shape or form, permit you to copy an entire textbook under the claim that it is for educational use. Whether you can claim Fair Use depends on the combination of ALL four of those factors. If you are using something for educational purposes, you merely have a stronger case for claiming Fair Use that if you are using it for commercial purposes. But if you are copying a substantial portion of it, then you are more than shooting yourself in the foot on both substantiality and impact on marketability.

Oh I agree completely. I would not even copy a full chapter.

 

Because the author chose to put new material in an edition that you didn't buy. Why should they ever put out a new edition if everything that owns an older edition things that they have the right to bootleg the new one?

Oh, not only that, but I expect a new ICE engine in my automobile since they came out with newer ones for my model now and I don't want to have to buy a new car just for that (ha ha)
People have a strong tendency to rationalize toward their own personal interests when money is involved.

 

I think "docs.google" doesn't mean what you're implying. I believe it's somebody's cloud storage, just like a Dropbox link would be. I don't think Google monitors content of user's cloud storage.

Yes I believe that to be true now also.

 

The controlling law is not that of the poster but of the legal entity owning the forum. You may be in the clear for the posting but that doesn't mean AAC is safe from repercussions. I don't think AAC qualifies for Safe Harbor under the DMCA, though copyright owners would probably behave as if they did.

In the US, fair use is a solid idea, but it can't interfere with the market for the work, must use the minimum amount of the original work that will be sufficient, be used for criticism, parody, or education, and be a "transformative" work. There's no chance a full book could be US fair use—it's just bootlegging.

I agree and I believe that a full chapter does not qualify either as some may think. A few pages maybe would be OK I think.
A short section of text actually pays homage to the writers. When someone sees something informative that came from a certain book they may seek to purchase the entire work. I've been in that position before.