Again, claiming that something living is neutral is hardly accurate. You can't look at the few electrons that might move and not the millions of others inside the bird and claim a few electrons make it negative. There is an equilibrium and living creatures are pretty darn good at maintaining that equilibrium through various processes.

All this to say, yes, small amounts of electrons might move one way or another, but that doesn't make any discernable difference when the equilibrium we are taking about contains many times more electrons than the few that move.

 

Now connect a 1Ω resistor between the two spheres. Current flows through the resistor and the potential between the two spheres is reduced to zero.

Calculate the current flowing through the 1Ω resistor.

That's what I call free Energy.

 

You don't see electrocuted birds falling from a 500,000V transmission line.

Ok, here is a physics experiment you can work through.

Take a metallic sphere, 1m in radius, insulated and supported 1m off the ground, i.e. the center of the sphere is 2m from the ground.

Connect a 12VDC battery, +ve terminal to the sphere, -ve terminal to ground. The sphere is now charged to +12V.

Take a second identical sphere but this time reverse the polarity of the 12VDC battery, i.e. -ve terminal to sphere, +ve terminal to ground. The second sphere is now charged to -12V.

Remove the 12V battery.

There is 24V potential difference between the two spheres.

Now connect a 1Ω resistor between the two spheres. Current flows through the resistor and the potential between the two spheres is reduced to zero.

Calculate the current flowing through the 1Ω resistor.

I guess it goes from 24 amp to 0.

I did the same thing with a wire and you told me it wouldn't get charged while your sphere is. I really fail to see the difference except that one end of your battery is connected to the ground, but it being connected to the ground or anything else is irrelevant here right ?

 

If the sphere is a bird, it will acquire a potential of 12V with respect to ground. But the bird is not electrocuted.

 

If the sphere is a bird, it will acquire a potential of 12V with respect to ground. But the bird is not electrocuted.

Now we are at what I was asking. Sorry to seem rude but I feel like you thought I was asking about something else.

If we have 1 bird that is +12v and another that is -12v (with respect to the ground) if they both touch each other there should be a current flow once again thus electricity. As far as I understand they won't get shocked. But I don't get why. To me electricity = shock. Where is the hole in my reasoning ?

Thanks for your time tho.

 

Now we are at what I was asking. Sorry to seem rude but I feel like you thought I was asking about something else.

If we have 1 bird that is +12v and another that is -12v if they both touch each other there should be a current flow once again thus electricity. As far as I understand they won't get shocked. But I don't get why. To me electricity = shock. Where is the hole in my reasoning ?

Thanks for your time tho.

These discussions are more about (what does "it" mean). It's more about definitions and language than science.

As I read them. Most answers are correct in context.

What does "shock" mean?

When I approach 7KVAC with a finger, the arc burns my finger until I touch it. If not prepared, it shocks me. (yes I've done this)

Yet, I feel little or no "shock" sensation.

Surface area and body capacitance controls the current flow in this case. As does the electrical properties of air.

The way I understand your question. Yes current flows. Yes, "shock" is possible. At 12volts? Not so much!

Picture of current flow!

 

Now we are at what I was asking. Sorry to seem rude but I feel like you thought I was asking about something else.

If we have 1 bird that is +12v and another that is -12v (with respect to the ground) if they both touch each other there should be a current flow once again thus electricity. As far as I understand they won't get shocked. But I don't get why. To me electricity = shock. Where is the hole in my reasoning ?

Thanks for your time tho.

Electrons flow between the HV wire and the bird. The wire could be at 500,000V. The bird gets charged to 500,000V and is still alive.
Why?
Because the current is infinitesimally small.

But the situation with the graphics with your 9V battery is not the same thing. The wire never achieves a potential of 9V. I don't think you understand this.

 

Now we are at what I was asking. Sorry to seem rude but I feel like you thought I was asking about something else.

If we have 1 bird that is +12v and another that is -12v (with respect to the ground) if they both touch each other there should be a current flow once again thus electricity. As far as I understand they won't get shocked. But I don't get why. To me electricity = shock. Where is the hole in my reasoning ?

Thanks for your time tho.

If you haven't already read it, the following blog entry might be helpful to you.

http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/blog.php?b=588

The bottom line is that the amount of charge that has to flow in order to bring the birds to the same potential is so small that it is not capable of producing much, if any, sensation.

 

If the bird flies off, will it still be charged?

To 5KV?
Does that means it can carry Voltage with it.

 

If the bird flies off, will it still be charged?

To 5KV?
Does that means it can carry Voltage with it.

How much charge does it take to charge the bird to 5kV relative to ground if the bird is 10m away from the ground?

If the bird is charged from nothing to that charge in one microsecond, how much current had to flow?

The notion of "carrying voltage" is nonsensical. It can carry a net charge (as almost everything does in practice) but that is not the same thing as "carrying voltage".

 

Well according to OP the bird will be hot.

 

Lead me to a hot bird!

 

Well according to OP the bird will be hot.

And your point would be?

 

Electrons flow between the HV wire and the bird. The wire could be at 500,000V. The bird gets charged to 500,000V and is still alive.
Why?
Because the current is infinitesimally small.

But the situation with the graphics with your 9V battery is not the same thing. The wire never achieves a potential of 9V. I don't think you understand this.

Indeed I don't and I'll get a private teacher tomorrow because this annoys me. -so there is no misunderstanding- I didn't say it had a potential of 9v. I had say that the "wire" would become the extension of the - ev terminal of the battery and thus becoming negatively charged.
And I also (assuming the battery doesn't load itself and is just a difference of potential of 9v that would drop to 0 if both ends were connected together) think that the result of the overall difference of potential from the ev+ terminal with the ev- and the wire terminal wouldn't be 9v. It would be slightly less because the electrons are less concentrated than they were before. Making them want less to join the + side of the battery.

Well according to OP the bird will be hot.

I'm not saying it gets hot Im saying if a bird is connected to something charged negatively it should be charged negatively as well because electrons will want to balance and everybody is entitled to tell me that's not the case.

I also understand that the current from the wire doesn't go through the bird unless one of its leg would be one side of a resistor and the other leg the other side of the same resistor. That's totally irrelevant to what I'm asking.

 

Indeed I don't and I'll get a private teacher tomorrow because this annoys me. -so there is no misunderstanding- I didn't say it had a potential of 9v. I had say that the "wire" would become the extension of the - ev terminal of the battery and thus becoming negatively charged.
And I also (assuming the battery doesn't load itself and is just a difference of potential of 9v that would drop to 0 if both ends were connected together) think that the result of the overall difference of potential from the ev+ terminal with the ev- and the wire terminal wouldn't be 9v. It would be slightly less because the electrons are less concentrated than they were before. Making them want less to join the + side of the battery.

You are assuming that the 9V battery consists of a separation of charge such that (in the absence of a complete circuit to drain the charge) there is +Q on one terminal and -Q on the other terminal. That's not the case. Read the blog post I linked earlier and you will see why.

 

I'm getting deja vu, for a moment there I thought this was a DexterMcCoy thread...

 

If the bird flies off, will it still be charged?

To 5KV?
Does that means it can carry Voltage with it.

Well, not exactly--but an electric charge, divided by the capacitance it's stored in, produces a certain voltage. Think of generating a static charge as you walk across a rug in dry conditions indoors--you can generate a "voltage" up in the kilovolt range, stored on a capacitance of a couple of hundred picoFarads, which is typical for a human body versus ground. When you discharge yourself, by touching a grounded object, you can certainly feel it.

There is a very neat explanation of birds on wires here:
http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=52537
A conductive object, ie bird, lands on the wire. The bird will be at the same voltage to earth as the wire.

The bird departs. The capacitance between the bird and earth (consider each to be one plate of a air spaced capacitor) will be small, however the bird will have a charge of Q Coulombs. Capacitance C Farads is inversely proportional to the distance between the plates. The charge on the bird is Q = C x V where Q is Coulombs, C is capacitance in Farads and V is voltage.

As the bird descends, its capacitance to earth increases since the plates are getting closer together, but the charge remains the same. At half the original height, the capacitance will have doubled, but with a constant Q the voltage between the bird and earth will have halved (to keep Q = C x V). This continues until as the bird touches down the voltage has decreased to zero as the capacitance has got bigger.

Theoretical, but that is what happens, and the bird lives!

 

Hey I'm reading the first chapter on this website and it says a bird which stands on a circuit isn't hazardous because there is no difference of potential between two points. But to me there is a difference of potential between the bird's body and the wire. I mean the excess of electron in the wire should balance and go into the bird.
I understand why a person standing in the ground will be shocked.

Also hypothetically : if the current in the wire of a circuit is high enough could the bird be shocked due to the air around him being ionized and thus no more insulating ? So the air will be like the earth when a person touches an electric wire.

Thanks

Occasionally a raven will explode upon contacting a pair of high tension wires. They're just about the only bird up here with a wingspan sufficient to to this.

 

500,000 Volts:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s8x2efUY5c


Cleaning off the bird poop:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjhjna9jZE

 

Bird has a resistance....so it is a resistance whose one end is connected to the circuit and the other end is floating......hence no current flows through it .......

you may show your concerns over this concept..........