One thing I noticed in the original post was that in the first scenario it was never brought up that he didn't have a hammer. If that had been brought up I would have immediately offered for him to borrow the hammer, and if he was a nice guy about it and offered to return it promptly and whatnot, I'd just tell him to keep it.
If he fails to bring up that he doesn't have a hammer, then I would still let him borrow.
Asking for someone elses perfectly good and frequently used property is a nono on his part
(but if the hammer was 10 years old and laying in the corner of the backyard forgotten about, yea, he could ask for it just fine.)

 

I think the Native Americans would have said the same thing about land. "Land can't be divided...to deny land is a violation of human rights"

I once heard (not sure where or if it was credible) that some notable Native American (don't remember who) commented something to the effect of "how can you own a piece of land? That's like owning a block of air." I really wish I could provide a refernce but I don't know what to google. But I'll trust that you get the idea, without a quote or a link.

In 1854, our government attempted to purchase land from the Suquamis Native Americans.

Chief Seattle, replied:

"How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us.
If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?
Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people. The sap which courses through the trees carries the memories of the red man.
The white man's dead forget the country of their birth when they go to walk among the stars. Our dead never forget this beautiful earth, for it is the mother of the red man. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters; the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows, the body heat of the pony, and man --- all belong to the same family."

 

All part of their religion.

Very poetic though.

 

Personally, I am very stingy with my tools. (That is probably why I still have the Craftsman 3/8th inch socket set I bought in 1970.) My tools are how I make a living. Nobody borrows my tools unless they are part of my crew, and that still results in losing tools!

I don't fret if a tool gives its life in the line of duty. Sometimes a screwdriver tip shatters when I hammer the impact driver. Power switches go bad and motors wear out. Even Phillips tips wear out. No big deal. I do care when somebody leaves my tools in the grass, rusting to death, or ruins my wire cutters by trying to use them on steel cable. I can't imagine how somebody loses a tool in a day or two when I can keep a full set of sockets intact for 40 years. That bothers me. It feels like stealing.

People that don't have the tools they need often don't have them because they don't take care of them. That's the first thing I consider. Common, every day tools, don't get loaned by me. On the other hand, I can see loaning a specialty tool like a Ford distributor wrench or a 36 inch pipe wrench, but only if I know you. When it comes back, it better be prompt and it better be clean or you won't get another chance.

Tools are probably the only thing that I'm this anal about. If you need an excuse because you feel pressured, you can refer to my "policy".

 

#12 I agree with you 100%. I have worked as an electrician for 16+ years and hardly ever asked someone I was working with to borrow a tool. If I saw a need for some tool I went out that day after work and bought it. It really annoyed me when an apprentice would come to me asking to borrow a screwdriver or whatever day after day. They chose the line of work knowing that they had to have tools to do their job. I stopped lending out tools because sometimes they wouldn't come back in the same condition, other times they never came back.

 

(unrelated to my original post, but on topic with the new topic of loaning tools...)

My brother in law was the manager of a deli in the "hip" part of town for 7 or 8 years. In that area, the people are "edgy", as in they have lots of tattoos, piercings, etc. and so does he. It didn't effect his job. He fit right in there. Then he got fired and found out the hard way that the rest of the country outside those few blocks won't hire you if your neck and hands are tattooed and you have huge plugs in your earlobes. In the beginning, he was looking to "move up" from his position at the deli and possibly go be a manager of a fancy restaurant. As his prospects dwindled from lofty 5 star manager goals down through busboy, to nothing in the customer service industry, he decided to change course. He started looking for a trade. He got a job with an electrical company that installs generators. They said they would take him as an apprentice. He showed up on the first day wearing tennis shoes and his only tool was a pocket knife. They gave him a list of tools he needed and he didn't know what half of them were. He came to me and when I saw the list it hurt my butt cheek right where my wallet goes. I knew that:
1. he couldn't afford those tools
2. I had all of them
3. I'm too soft not to give (loan) them to him
4. He won't appreciate them because he didn't buy them
5. I won't get most of them back, or will get them back in disrepair
6. I won't be compensated for anything missing or broken
7. In light of all this, I'm still too soft not to loan them to him
So, he's got probably >1000$ of my tools. I don't even want to know the status of them. I'm trying to forget what I put in his (my) toolbox so I won't miss it when I don't get it back. I do this, #1 because I try to be a good guy, and #2 because I want him to have every possible thing working in his favor for him to be able to provide the best living possible for my sister & nieces. If he doesn't, I'll probably be the one who ends up having to take up the slack, and that will probably cost a lot more than 1000$. So I guess I consider it an investment.

 

#12 I agree with you 100%. I have worked as an electrician for 16+ years and hardly ever asked someone I was working with to borrow a tool. If I saw a need for some tool I went out that day after work and bought it. It really annoyed me when an apprentice would come to me asking to borrow a screwdriver or whatever day after day. They chose the line of work knowing that they had to have tools to do their job. I stopped lending out tools because sometimes they wouldn't come back in the same condition, other times they never came back.

This is not what strantor is asking.

He says he has two identical hammers and the neighbor comes and asks if he can have one of the hammers, not "can I borrow one of your hammers?".

You wouldn't expect to see it back again.

 

(unrelated to my original post, but on topic with the new topic of loaning tools...)

My brother in law was the manager of a deli in the "hip" part of town for 7 or 8 years. In that area, the people are "edgy", as in they have lots of tattoos, piercings, etc. and so does he. It didn't effect his job. He fit right in there. Then he got fired and found out the hard way that the rest of the country outside those few blocks won't hire you if your neck and hands are tattooed and you have huge plugs in your earlobes. In the beginning, he was looking to "move up" from his position at the deli and possibly go be a manager of a fancy restaurant. As his prospects dwindled from lofty 5 star manager goals down through busboy, to nothing in the customer service industry, he decided to change course. He started looking for a trade. He got a job with an electrical company that installs generators. They said they would take him as an apprentice. He showed up on the first day wearing tennis shoes and his only tool was a pocket knife. They gave him a list of tools he needed and he didn't know what half of them were. He came to me and when I saw the list it hurt my butt cheek right where my wallet goes. I knew that:
1. he couldn't afford those tools
2. I had all of them
3. I'm too soft not to give (loan) them to him
4. He won't appreciate them because he didn't buy them
5. I won't get most of them back, or will get them back in disrepair
6. I won't be compensated for anything missing or broken
7. In light of all this, I'm still too soft not to loan them to him
So, he's got probably >1000$ of my tools. I don't even want to know the status of them. I'm trying to forget what I put in his (my) toolbox so I won't miss it when I don't get it back. I do this, #1 because I try to be a good guy, and #2 because I want him to have every possible thing working in his favor for him to be able to provide the best living possible for my sister & nieces. If he doesn't, I'll probably be the one who ends up having to take up the slack, and that will probably cost a lot more than 1000$. So I guess I consider it an investment.

Tell him he can have the lot for some cheap price ($500, $250, whatever he can afford) and go spend some money and buy yourself some better ones

 

Tell him he can have the lot for some cheap price ($500, $250, whatever he can afford) and go spend some money and buy yourself some better ones

lol. That would be a great idea if they were harbor freight tools.... but they weren't . Just the dewalt XRP cordless drill, Fluke 189, and greenlee knockout set are >1000$, now that I think about it I way undersetimated the value of the tools. Add the craftsman socket set, craftsman wrench set, crimpers, pliers, dykes, etc., etc, all name brand not cheap china. whoa. I'm getting depressed now.

 

This is not what strantor is asking.

He says he has two identical hammers and the neighbor comes and asks if he can have one of the hammers, not "can I borrow one of your hammers?".

You wouldn't expect to see it back again.

Sorry, I got a little carried away. Although I still kind of have the same philosophy about tools at home and neighbors wanting/needing something. If you are a home owner you will need some tools at some point to do something, unless you have the money available to hire a "handyman" every time some task comes up.

I guess I am kind of stingy with the stuff that I have worked for. So even if I had two of something I doubt that I would just give one away. There may be the occasional exception. Then there may be the times where I would just help the neighbor with what they are doing, which is kind of another subject.

 

...
So, he's got probably >1000$ of my tools. I don't even want to know the status of them. I'm trying to forget what I put in his (my) toolbox so I won't miss it when I don't get it back. I do this, #1 because I try to be a good guy, and #2 because I want him to have every possible thing working in his favor for him to be able to provide the best living possible for my sister & nieces. If he doesn't, I'll probably be the one who ends up having to take up the slack, and that will probably cost a lot more than 1000$. So I guess I consider it an investment.

That's a tough one, family is family. It always worries me when someone has "no money". Does he drink? Smoke? Gamble? Drive a $20000 car when he could drive a $2000 car and have $18000 left to improve his future?

Experience has shown that when someone chronically has "no money" they are like a bucket with a big hole in the bottom. You can help them out and pour some money in the top but chances are very soon everything you gave will be gone and they will have "no money" again.

I'm not going to ask what he did with all his wages from when he was working. But it's worrying that he could not even save $1000 over that time to buy all the tools needed to set himself up for his new career.

Rather than give him tools you might need to teach him some money wisdom? That may have a better long term benefit for your sister and their children.

 

lol. That would be a great idea if they were harbor freight tools.... but they weren't . Just the dewalt XRP cordless drill, Fluke 189, and greenlee knockout set are >1000$, now that I think about it I way undersetimated the value of the tools. Add the craftsman socket set, craftsman wrench set, crimpers, pliers, dykes, etc., etc, all name brand not cheap china. whoa. I'm getting depressed now.

ooooo....
ouch
yea, that's a tough one
I personally wouldn't have been able to let it all go