I don't want to go into any details but I am privy to the type of lifestyle enjoyed by our upper management. Multiple homes, company paid automobiles and drivers, company paid private jet for both company and personal travel etc etc.

Part of me wants that. The other part is glad to be doing just what I am doing. I don't have a lot of responsibility at the end of 8 hours in a day or 40 hours in a week my day is done. It is rare occasion that I work a weekend and if I do it is only for a couple of hours and I can take the time elsewhere.

I don't make a lot of money. But I have enough to live in a small but nice home in a great neighborhood. I can afford to travel some each year. Life can be better but it is actually better than the life the vast majority of the world has.

The only issue is that I am not certain my future is secure. If I were making the kind of money the upper management makes, I could work a year and never have to worry for the rest of my life.


So what say everyone else? Would you trade your current life for one where you had a lot more responsibility and a lot less time for your private life?

 

I think my quality of life has been due mainly to the fact I have been fortunate to always enjoy what I have been involved in at the time, looking back I may have done a few things differently , but I am not alone there!
Max.

 

Would you trade your current life for one where you had a lot more responsibility and a lot less time for your private life?

Hell, NO!!!! I'm retired.

 

I don't want to go into any details but I am privy to the type of lifestyle enjoyed by our upper management. Multiple homes, company paid automobiles and drivers, company paid private jet for both company and personal travel etc etc.

Part of me wants that. The other part is glad to be doing just what I am doing. I don't have a lot of responsibility at the end of 8 hours in a day or 40 hours in a week my day is done. It is rare occasion that I work a weekend and if I do it is only for a couple of hours and I can take the time elsewhere.

I don't make a lot of money. But I have enough to live in a small but nice home in a great neighborhood. I can afford to travel some each year. Life can be better but it is actually better than the life the vast majority of the world has.

The only issue is that I am not certain my future is secure. If I were making the kind of money the upper management makes, I could work a year and never have to worry for the rest of my life.


So what say everyone else? Would you trade your current life for one where you had a lot more responsibility and a lot less time for your private life?

I'm retired now, but when I was working I loved my job so 60 hour work weeks were common. The company I spent most of my working time with my wife also worked. She would sometimes come drag me away. I took a couple of trips on the corporate jet and I must admit it was nice. No lines, no long drive to the big airport, but I wouldn't trade much for that.

 

I am for the most part happy with where I am now. I'm largely where I wanted to be in life although about 10 years behind when I would have been most satisfied with having gotten here.

Sure some things could be improved on at a rate far faster than I'm accomplishing them presently but I can say with certainty I am at least moving forward in life at a rate that is measureable.

I may not be a top level executive but I do have two houses, multiple vehicles, loads of tools and equipment, land and I treat my family and friends well when I see them plus everything I own is payed for which puts my personal life operational costs extremely low compared to the average for people who live as I do with what resources I have!

For me money is just a convenience and not something I am driven to acquire as much of as I can by any means necessary just to self justify by common standards that I am in some way better or more successful than others.
To me having a million (or several) dollars in the bank is about as useful as having a million nuts, bolts screws and nails. Both are great if a person actually needs them and can turn them into something useful at that level but if not, what's the point?

What is and always has been important to me is time. Having time to do what I want to do. A concept very few people can fully relate to beyond being a dream like having a huge sum of money in the bank.
That and knowledge I can actually put to practical use.
As of lately I have been trying to improve my writing skills but in order to do that I have to improve my communications skills which again, to best do that, requires me to learn more about how I and others think (or for some, how they can't or refuse to think at all) which has lead me to studying about about psychology and social interaction to get a better grasp on what I need for a foundation of better communication and thusly better ability to write. Something that for most people would very hard to accomplish without a considerable amount free time available.

So am I where I want to be? Well I guess so, being I'm 42 and am at the point I don't have to work if I don't want to but if I do I can qualify for 6 figure incomes in technical/supervisory positions in the oilfields easily enough but for now I have an am getting what I want out of life!
I don't know where I will be in 10 years or what my retirement will look like but I can hope that my life trend keeps going the way it is and I won't have to many concerns when I get there.

 

I am for the most part happy with where I am now. I'm largely where I wanted to be in life although about 10 years behind when I would have been most satisfied with having gotten here.

Sure some things could be improved on at a rate far faster than I'm accomplishing them presently but I can say with certainty I am at least moving forward in life at a rate that is measureable.

I may not be a top level executive but I do have two houses, multiple vehicles, loads of tools and equipment, land and I treat my family and friends well when I see them plus everything I own is payed for which puts my personal life operational costs extremely low compared to the average for people who live as I do with what resources I have!

For me money is just a convenience and not something I am driven to acquire as much of as I can by any means necessary just to self justify by common standards that I am in some way better or more successful than others.
To me having a million (or several) dollars in the bank is about as useful as having a million nuts, bolts screws and nails. Both are great if a person actually needs them and can turn them into something useful at that level but if not, what's the point?

What is and always has been important to me is time. Having time to do what I want to do. A concept very few people can fully relate to beyond being a dream like having a huge sum of money in the bank.
That and knowledge I can actually put to practical use.
As of lately I have been trying to improve my writing skills but in order to do that I have to improve my communications skills which again, to best do that, requires me to learn more about how I and others think (or for some, how they can't or refuse to think at all) which has lead me to studying about about psychology and social interaction to get a better grasp on what I need for a foundation of better communication and thusly better ability to write. Something that for most people would very hard to accomplish without a considerable amount free time available.

So am I where I want to be? Well I guess so, being I'm 42 and am at the point I don't have to work if I don't want to but if I do I can qualify for 6 figure incomes in technical/supervisory positions in the oilfields easily enough but for now I have an am getting what I want out of life!
I don't know where I will be in 10 years or what my retirement will look like but I can hope that my life trend keeps going the way it is and I won't have to many concerns when I get there.

"So am I where I want to be? Well I guess so, being I'm 42 and am at the point I don't have to work if I don't want to but if I do I can qualify for 6 figure incomes in technical/supervisory positions in the oilfields easily enough but for now I have an am getting what I want out of life!"

Man am I working in the wrong field. Make no where near that. No I don't have to work either but I would need to dramticlly cut back on my life style and that would likely mean moving to a much less expensive home. While my place is nice now, it still is not exataly a mansion.


"To me having a million (or several) dollars in the bank is about as useful as having a million nuts, bolts screws and nails. Both are great if a person actually needs them and can turn them into something useful at that level but if not, what's the point? "

It means security for your future and that is my main concern. And beyond a certain amount it means buying comfort. Having that 2nd, 3rd or fourth home in various parts of the country and flying to them in your private jet as opposed to being herded on a cramped airplane and flying off to stay in a dingy Motel 8. Of course having at least some money means you can afford to take those trips as opposed to worrying about where your next meal is going to come from.

 

Hell, NO!!!! I'm retired.

OK so what was your job before you retired? Where you upper management? If not, would you have traded for that life?

 

OK so what was your job before you retired? Where you upper management? If not, would you have traded for that life?

I was a design engineer, and absolutely would NOT have traded it for more $$$ and a management position.

 

I would like to work if I won the lottery. I realize that wasn't the question but maybe it would help to understand my point.

If I won the lottery I would not like to move into a mansion or buy a jet. I would like to maybe get a new truck and go into business for myself, not having to wonder where next month's food comes from.

In business for myself, the first employee I would hire is a manager, to manage me and everyone else. I do not want to be in charge. I want to be left alone in my corner tinkering. I have no interest in owning yachts, but I would sure like a nice TIG welder.

No, I am not 100% happy where I am in life. I am allowed to tinker at work but there is too much politics that I get sucked into, no matter how far I try to distance myself from it. I do not like working for other people. Getting tired of it.

I am happy enough to stay where I am for what I am getting paid. I make good money, not a lot of overtime, good benefits. The perfect job to keep you just pacified enough to prevent you reaching greatness.

I have been asked to be a manager and I declined. I feel like that hurt my standing. I don't understand why. Management and technical skill are two very different things. I don't know why you are expected to "graduate" out of something you are good at and passionate about, into something that you're probably going to suck at, and go home every day hating life.

 

The other thing to consider in management is you can't have a heart and be able to sleep at night. Oh upper management might make it sound good and talk about have valuable they find their employees and the importance of their quality of life and all of that garbage but when it comes down to it they will lay people off in a second and replace with cheaper labor if it means saving a few bucks on the bottom line. That is something I could never do. Nor would I ever be good at playing the political games as stantor mentioned.

I remember years back we had a huge layoff. It was in the thousands for a company at the time had only 25K employees. The layoff occurred just weeks before our stock holders meeting. Now you know the CEO had to know that the very first question was going to be about the layoffs. Of course the very first question to the CEO were how many people were laid off. He couldn't answer. That shows out of touch these people are with the rest of the employees. He himself should have had the exact figure. At the very least he should have arranged for someone from HR to be their to answer questions on the layoff.

If I were the CEO of a company with a massive layoff like that I would want the names on my desk to remind me every day for what I was responsible. . I know at that level it is just cost savings to the CEO. They probably don't even know layoffs are involved though they should. But I would want to know exactly were the savings were coming from and who it affected. I would like to speak to each of the employees to see if there was anyway the company could help with their transition. But that is why I could never be CEO and would not want that on my conscience for any price or thousands of flights on the corporate jet.

 

I have been asked to be a manager and I declined. I feel like that hurt my standing. I don't understand why. Management and technical skill are two very different things. I don't know why you are expected to "graduate" out of something you are good at and passionate about, into something that you're probably going to suck at, and go home every day hating life.

The start up I worked for had parallel paths for technical and management all the way to the VP level. I thought it was a great system. I think the company went to about 15,000 people using it.
We usually had the opposite problem of what @spinnaker was talking about with layoffs. We grew so fast that not all the people we hired were up to the job. So every now and then we would thin the herd. It was always painful but it gave first level managers relief from feeling quite so bad about it. If you don't keep the work ethic up it can become like a bad disease and spread.

 

I am almost retired. I've been laid off twice in four years (after a fourteen year run. Thirty two years of continuous employment in total) and am currently looking for employment.

But the rub is I have gone from a six figure salary to just about poverty line in that time.

I must say I am in a conundrum. The six figure job was extremely stressful and I didn't miss it at all. But at my next job, I was still making a salary we could live on. I have savings, but they weren't to be touched for another five to seven years. My family have all lived into their nineties. I am in my sixties.

So, in all honesty, my answer is "no", but with the above qualifications.

 

So what say everyone else? Would you trade your current life for one where you had a lot more responsibility and a lot less time for your private life?

I'm actually at a point in my life where this is a really relevant question -- I'm 52 and fully realize that I am quickly becoming not-young any more; there are already lots of things I would love to do that I am just not physically capable of doing anymore -- and that list is going to keep growing and growing more rapidly as each year passes. I also have a 9 year old daughter and spending time with her any my wife is high on my list of priorities. But at the same time I know that I don't have that many working years left and that my retirement savings isn't where it really should be -- and kicking myself for that because I certainly had the opportunities to ensure that it would be.

If I could increase my income by 50% or so for three years, even at the cost of 50% more hours, I would do it. That would finish paying off the house and pump the retirement savings to where I would like to get them. I came close to doing the income increase but without the hours increase, but the deal fell through. None-the-less, I think I'm moving to a position that gets me a bit more money but with considerably fewer hours. So now I have to decide whether I try to supplement the income to reach those goals, or go for a slower burn that should still get us to goal by retirement and enjoy the free time with the family. I expect I'll try to find a happy medium.

As for the bigger question you are really asking (I think) -- would I like the long-term responsibility that goes along with the big-time paycheck? I think not. I don't mind taking on responsibility -- I've done that in spades for free via leadership positions in volunteer organizations. But I hate management duties -- it's not me and it's not what I enjoy nor what I am good at. For the most part, I've always had jobs that I enjoyed going to work and was willing to put in overtime (with or without extra compensation) because I enjoyed the work so much. That means a lot to me. But on the other side there are lots of things I would love to be able to do if I had the money; I'm not even talking about obscene amounts of money. The ability to take a month a year and take a $20k vacation with the family would go a long way toward fulfilling my appetites. I'd also like to have, say, an extra $10k a year for purely hobby expenses and another $10k or so plus the time to support a couple of charitable organizations. The next step up would be the money to buy a small airplane and fly it on a very regular basis -- though I think my flying days are probably over due to medical issue. Sure, I'd love to have the money to afford a few million-dollar airplanes like a P-51 or something, but that is on such a different scale that I can't even really relate to it. The same for flying on private jets or owning large yachts or having a big home with a full-time staff.

Right now my focus is shifting and becoming two-pronged. First, being deliberate in our financial planning so that we do (hopefully) get to a point where when I retire we can have a secure lifestyle comparable to what we have now plus enough to enjoy the free time modestly. But second, to set my daughter on a path where she WILL have the financial resources early in her adult life to give her the options to chart a life that she wants separate from chasing a dollar. She just started working for me and she will make about $5k a year (basically 10 hrs/wk at near minimum wage) but 90% of that will go into a Roth 401-k or IRA. If she averages 7% real return each year (which is about what the S&P has done historically), then that will grow to about $150k in 50 years (in today's dollars since that's real return) and be untaxable (assuming they don't change the law and make Roth IRAs taxable, which I suspect they will at some point). So if she works at that pace just until she's 16 she should have about a million dollars for retirement when she's 63 even if she never invests another dime. But, more importantly, my goal is to help her develop the maturity and knowledge so that she will have the habit of investing engrained in her. If she adopts the approach that she lives on half of what she earns and invests everything else once taxes are paid out of it and a modest amount for giving, then she can be financially independent probably sometime in her 30s. She can pursue her passions even if they are in fields that don't pay well. I realize it's hard for a child to look that far down the road, but that is where my role comes in -- I've already been working on her for about a year and can see some glimmer of that thinking in her taking shape.

 

I was fortunate. I am retired and while new hires do not see it I was vested in the company pension plan and not many companies had a salary pension plan. My wife Kathy was a manager for a local TV station and I was an engineering specialist for what became Babcock Wilcox after they bought us and we were employee owned. Kathy and I had nice income which came to light once the kids were gone with kids of their own. When we decided to retire I was 63 and Kathy was 66, that was 4 years ago. We were debt free and own the house which made things easy. We did take a big income hit but we were also taxed to death. We looked at what retirement income would be, looked at our savings and investments and figured it was time. With my company new corporate ownership came change. The demands were greater and the raises smaller. I was still well liked and respected so it was time to get the hell out. I love retirement. We travel together and independently, I enjoy my motorcycle and my shooting hobby. Yes, it is great and yes, we are happy with our lifestyle. I feel for several friends who will work till the grave and really feel for the kids and grand kids. We were fortunate and that pension check is sweet and if I checkout I opted for slightly less and Kathy will receive the pension. Anyway, yes, we like or actually love the new lifestyle. Would I do it all again the same way? Absolutely!

Ron

 

I'm actually at a point in my life where this is a really relevant question -- I'm 52 and fully realize that I am quickly becoming not-young any more; there are already lots of things I would love to do that I am just not physically capable of doing anymore -- and that list is going to keep growing and growing more rapidly as each year passes. I also have a 9 year old daughter and spending time with her any my wife is high on my list of priorities. But at the same time I know that I don't have that many working years left and that my retirement savings isn't where it really should be -- and kicking myself for that because I certainly had the opportunities to ensure that it would be.

If I could increase my income by 50% or so for three years, even at the cost of 50% more hours, I would do it. That would finish paying off the house and pump the retirement savings to where I would like to get them. I came close to doing the income increase but without the hours increase, but the deal fell through. None-the-less, I think I'm moving to a position that gets me a bit more money but with considerably fewer hours. So now I have to decide whether I try to supplement the income to reach those goals, or go for a slower burn that should still get us to goal by retirement and enjoy the free time with the family. I expect I'll try to find a happy medium.

As for the bigger question you are really asking (I think) -- would I like the long-term responsibility that goes along with the big-time paycheck? I think not. I don't mind taking on responsibility -- I've done that in spades for free via leadership positions in volunteer organizations. But I hate management duties -- it's not me and it's not what I enjoy nor what I am good at. For the most part, I've always had jobs that I enjoyed going to work and was willing to put in overtime (with or without extra compensation) because I enjoyed the work so much. That means a lot to me. But on the other side there are lots of things I would love to be able to do if I had the money; I'm not even talking about obscene amounts of money. The ability to take a month of a year and take a $20k vacation with the family would go a long way toward fulfilling my appetites. I'd also like to have, say, an extra $10k a year for purely hobby expenses and another $10k or so plus the time to support a couple of charitable organizations. The next step up would be the money to buy a small airplane and fly it on a very regular basis -- though I think my flying days are probably over due to medical issue. Sure, I'd love to have the money to afford a few million-dollar airplanes like a P-51 or something, but that is on such a different scale that I can't even really relate to it. The same for flying on private jets or owning large yachts or having a big home with a full-time staff.

Right now my focus is shifting and becoming two-pronged. First, being deliberate in our financial planning so that we do (hopefully) get to a point where when I retire we can have a secure lifestyle comparable to what we have now plus enough to enjoy the free time modestly. But second, to set my daughter on a path where she WILL have the financial resources early in her adult life to give her the options to chart a life that she wants separate from chasing a dollar. She just started working for me and she will make about $5k a year (basically 10 hrs/wk at near minimum wage) but 90% of that will go into a Roth 401-k or IRA. If she averages 7% real return each year (which is about what the S&P has done historically), then that will grow to about $150k in 50 years (in today's dollars since that's real return) and be untaxable (assuming they don't change the law and make Roth IRAs taxable, which I suspect they will at some point). So if she works at that pace just until she's 16 she should have about a million dollars for retirement when she's 63 even if she never invests another dime. But, more importantly, my goal is to help her develop the maturity and knowledge so that she will have the habit of investing engrained in her. If she adopts the approach that she lives on half of what she earns and invests everything else once taxes are paid of out it, then she can be financially independent probably sometime in her 30s. I realize it's hard for a child to look that far down the road, but that is where my role comes in -- I've already been working on her for about a year and can see some glimmer of that thinking in her taking shape.

I think I was about your age when I realized I was getting older. Up to that time I pretty much spent money like I would always make more. I was lucky to work with companies that had good 401K matches so I jumped into those to try and make up for lost time. We also moved from Colorado to Tucson which was a big savings and warm.
I still have way more in the market than I would like, but don't know where else to put it. And of course to get much out of a 401K costs tax money which I try to hold to a minimum.

 

Right now my focus is shifting and becoming two-pronged. First, being deliberate in our financial planning so that we do (hopefully) get to a point where when I retire we can have a secure lifestyle comparable to what we have now plus enough to enjoy the free time modestly. But second, to set my daughter on a path where she WILL have the financial resources early in her adult life to give her the options to chart a life that she wants separate from chasing a dollar. She just started working for me and she will make about $5k a year (basically 10 hrs/wk at near minimum wage) but 90% of that will go into a Roth 401-k or IRA. If she averages 7% real return each year (which is about what the S&P has done historically), then that will grow to about $150k in 50 years (in today's dollars since that's real return) and be untaxable (assuming they don't change the law and make Roth IRAs taxable, which I suspect they will at some point). So if she works at that pace just until she's 16 she should have about a million dollars for retirement when she's 63 even if she never invests another dime. But, more importantly, my goal is to help her develop the maturity and knowledge so that she will have the habit of investing engrained in her. If she adopts the approach that she lives on half of what she earns and invests everything else once taxes are paid out of it and a modest amount for giving, then she can be financially independent probably sometime in her 30s. She can pursue her passions even if they are in fields that don't pay well. I realize it's hard for a child to look that far down the road, but that is where my role comes in -- I've already been working on her for about a year and can see some glimmer of that thinking in her taking shape.

I wish I was able to save for retirement when I was young. I wouldn't need to worry today. But that is just something you did not do back then. Pretty much your only option back then was a savings account or savings bonds. Then there was stocks but most people in my financial situation did not do that though what I would do to go back and buy some Microsoft and apple stock. I am not even sure they had mutual funds back then.

 

I think I was about your age when I realized I was getting older. Up to that time I pretty much spent money like I would always make more. I was lucky to work with companies that had good 401K matches so I jumped into those to try and make up for lost time. We also moved from Colorado to Tucson which was a big savings and warm.
I still have way more in the market than I would like, but don't know where else to put it. And of course to get much out of a 401K costs tax money which I try to hold to a minimum.

The vast majority of what I do have in retirement came from my old employer. He had a philosophy that drove him to maximize pre-tax benefits. So although the nominal salary wasn't fabulous, the company paid 100% for family health, dental, and life insurance. They also fully funded the family HSA accounts. In addition, the goal was to max out the contribution limits to the SEP plans at 25% of the employee's gross income (originally 15% before the law changed). They hit 15% each year before the change and afterwards hit the 25% most years, averaged about 23%, and never fell below 18%. All of that without the employees paying a dime out of their wages.

After I left (to pursue the life-long dream of teaching at the Air Force Academy) I got sloppy and most years didn't invest anything on an ongoing basis and then didn't have the funds to make the big lump sum contributions before the tax filing deadline. I had the income -- it was shear stupidity on my part. This was an unintended downside to having had such a wonderful employer-sponsored plan that required nothing from me. So now as I head back to the Academy as a contractor, we have committed to making the monthly contributions right off the top as the money comes in.

 

I wish I was able to save for retirement when I was young. I wouldn't need to worry today. But that is just something you did not do back then. Pretty much your only option back then was a savings account or savings bonds. Then there was stocks but most people in my financial situation did not do that though what I would do to go back and buy some Microsoft and apple stock. I am not even sure they had mutual funds back then.

I think many (even most) people are in exactly that same situation -- looking back there were so many EASY and pretty painless ways (and that didn't require crystal balls telling us to buy Microsoft or Apple, either) that would have made such HUGE differences in our lives today. Forty or fifty years of compound returns is an amazing thing!

THAT'S why I'm so passionate about indoctrinating the dear old daughter!

 

I was fortunate. I am retired and while new hires do not see it I was vested in the company pension plan and not many companies had a salary pension plan. My wife Kathy was a manager for a local TV station and I was an engineering specialist for what became Babcock Wilcox after they bought us and we were employee owned. Kathy and I had nice income which came to light once the kids were gone with kids of their own. When we decided to retire I was 63 and Kathy was 66, that was 4 years ago. We were debt free and own the house which made things easy. We did take a big income hit but we were also taxed to death. We looked at what retirement income would be, looked at our savings and investments and figured it was time. With my company new corporate ownership came change. The demands were greater and the raises smaller. I was still well liked and respected so it was time to get the hell out. I love retirement. We travel together and independently, I enjoy my motorcycle and my shooting hobby. Yes, it is great and yes, we are happy with our lifestyle. I feel for several friends who will work till the grave and really feel for the kids and grand kids. We were fortunate and that pension check is sweet and if I checkout I opted for slightly less and Kathy will receive the pension. Anyway, yes, we like or actually love the new lifestyle. Would I do it all again the same way? Absolutely!

Ron

I wish I had a pension. If I had been working for the company when I was 18 I might have one today but even then I am not sure. When they dumped the pension, they went back pretty far to convert folks to a cash balance fund. Of course it cold have easily gone the other way had I had a pension. Lots of folks wound up with nothing especially in the steel industry.


But my question was not if you would do what you did over again. Rather would you trade what you did to have a more secure life and live your life in luxery but have to face all of the work and responsibility that comes with a job like that.

 

Man am I working in the wrong field. Make no where near that. No I don't have to work either but I would need to dramticlly cut back on my life style and that would likely mean moving to a much less expensive home. While my place is nice now, it still is not exataly a mansion.

Sounds like you are stuck where so many at my age are right now. Their stuff and life owns them, not the other way around. The cost of upkeep barely, or in many cases as people's life views change, no longer justifies the workload to keep things together but they have no reasonable way out and can't take the life changes that would be required to get to a more basic and far less demanding lifestyle.

It means security for your future and that is my main concern. And beyond a certain amount it means buying comfort. Having that 2nd, 3rd or fourth home in various parts of the country and flying to them in your private jet as opposed to being herded on a cramped airplane and flying off to stay in a dingy Motel 8. Of course having at least some money means you can afford to take those trips as opposed to worrying about where your next meal is going to come from.

And again that goes with what sort of lifestyle you want to live. For me I have zero want to own houses or anything any place I do not live . To keep each of them up costs as much as if you are living there even when you're gone so unless a person has a way above average disposable income and very few long term wants, keeping up multiple houses plus all the behind the scenes related costs is an outrageous personal financial resources outlay that has very little return other than immediate personal satisfaction.

Also from every life experience I have had the people who live such lives like that can only do ti largely due to either 'old family money' they inherited or they are terrible, selfish and greedy people. It's fun to dream the lifestyle but it's not one I would want to live for any rational reason given what it typically takes to pay for it.