Seriously what rule did this thread break?

http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/electric-scooter.111887/

It's not a factory made vehicle of any sort so clearly there are no modifications being done to any sort of automotive electronic so or any other systems for that matter.

I see zero references to any automotive electrical or mechanical component of any kind.

Are the new interpretations of the rules now assuming that anything that moves will now be considered an automobile or vehicle of some kind?

If it about "site liability" I seriously doubt it being that almost every single thread here has the potential to hurt or injure a person in some way or another either directly or indirectly.

Ever poke or cut your finger on a sharp piece of wire or solder joint? I have.

Ever touch something on a circuit that was hot enough to give you a blister? I have.

Ever fumble your soldering pencil, mini screw drivers, etc and either poke or burn yourself? I have.

Ever need a part for someplace else other than your immediate arms reach and have to go there only to stub your toe or injure yourself in some other way like putting your back out getting out of your work chair or slip and fall on something stupid? I have.

Ever found out you need a component from some place other than where you immediately are and have to walk or take a vehicle some place to get said components? Do you have any ideas how many ways that could get a person injured or killed just because they chose to do something related to what they found on this site? Cuts, scrapes, pokes and burns have lead to infections that have killed people. Lots of people.

My points are that every single thing related to what gets discussed on this site could lead to someone getting themselves hurt because the chose to act on what ever info they found here which with a good enough lawyer could easily lead to a liability lawsuit against this site.

Maybe the TOS should be changed to read,

Sorry due to potential site liability concerns we at AAC do not feel that any form of work with anything electronics or non electronics hobby or professional work is safe and all future thread relating to wanting to do do anything will be immediately closed as a breach of TOS agreements and rules said or implied.

Also please don't sue us if your pondering on our paranoia cause you to become distracted or to lose focus on any other activity of any form causing you to become injured or even emotionally butt hurt because of it's potential ridiculousness.

Have a nice day but not too nice of day it could distract you and lead to your possible injury or death or the injury or death of others.

My rant. (Humor may or may not have been intended depending on your view of my liability for having made you think, laugh or react in any way.)

 

The mods have gotten quite touchy, lately, IMHO.

I think the TOS should be changed to:

1. Questions regarding the proper series resistance for an LED are permitted.
2. All other topics are forbidden.

 

It depends on the time of month.

 

I'm fine with the concept of the forum owner as ultimate dictator, but I just don't see the point of the automotive topic ban in the first place.

If it's to prevent the forum from becoming "Car Talk", I could see it. But my understanding is that the ban has something to do with avoiding liability, and that makes no sense to me. Withholding information that might help someone exposes you to just as much liability as giving information. I mean, if someone does something unsafe with their car and something bad happens, they can point to AAC and say "those bastards refused to help me - they're liable".

 

But my understanding is that the ban has something to do with avoiding liability, and that makes no sense to me. Withholding information that might help someone exposes you to just as much liability as giving information. I mean, if someone does something unsafe with their car and something bad happens, they can point to AAC and say "those bastards refused to help me - they're liable".

OOOOHHH! My liability lawyers are drawing up a lawsuit as I type! They just want to know what the site liability insurance limit is so we can figure out if its worth the potential for a paper cut or not.

BTW one of them want to know how to permanently wire the power cord for his Iphone into a old 12 volt USB power adapter he got with his Mercedes that has a bad USB port on it.

Advice or not the site is boned on this one.

 

Wow! Somebody got served decaf this morning instead of regular, and they are not a happy camper.

 

I'm fine with the concept of the forum owner as ultimate dictator, but I just don't see the point of the automotive topic ban in the first place.

What is the maximum flash rate of the turn signals in China? In Japan? In IL? In Mexico, In Canada? In every country where someone may have a question?

What is the flash rate of the turn signals with one defective "bulb"?

There are TONS of specifications out there in this big ol' world. If you want to carry on a conversation with someone on automotive topics, you can do so in e-mail, facebook, or any number of other mediums. No one can stop you. You can put your professional credentials on the line as you see fit. The owner of this site has chosen not to allow automotive topics.

As far as the TS' of the now locked topic, nothing is preventing anyone from messaging them the answer.

 

As far as the TS' of the now locked topic, nothing is preventing anyone from messaging them the answer.

Except for the fact that new members are banned from PM's unless that has changed.
The tread starter in the thread under question was asking about a scooter they were making. How is that different than the threads wanting help with mobility scooters? Or for that matter treadmills?

 

All good questions, I've brought it before the moderation staff.

 

Wow! Somebody got served decaf this morning instead of regular, and they are not a happy camper.

Actually I slept pretty well and I don't drink coffee anyway. I did however get my good deed for the day done early so once that was done I was free to run amok as I pleased and I figured I have not ran amok here for a longtime.

Honestly I rarely have ever had any reason to question the moderators reasoning behind TOS enforcements but this one was to far off the defined rules for me to connect to anything remotely plausible that would have justified a lockdown.
It wasn't spam. It wasn't automotive, it wasn't over unity, it wasn't rude or worse and what it did have was a topic that has been discussed in depth here in one way or another more times than I could count without once ever having had justified a lockdown due to TOS infractions.

 

Except for the fact that new members are banned from PM's unless that has changed.

The TS's (newbies) may be restricted from messages, but, I would think a message FROM a member authorized to do so would go through.

Somebody correct me if my thinking is not correct.

The tread starter in the thread under question was asking about a scooter they were making. How is that different than the threads wanting help with mobility scooters? Or for that matter treadmills?

Good question. There definitely safety aspects for each. Does anyone know the criteria for equipment on street legal electric scooters? What about mobility scooters? What about troubleshooting circuit boards pertaining to each?

I still advocate the no automotive modifications due to government compliance issues.

 

I don't consider anything that does not require a licence plate government/ Department Of Transportation (DOT) registration and a drivers licence of any sort to be a transportation device that would fall under government control and regulation.

If a kids EV or or home built EV/mobility device now falls under automotive then every thread related to anyone adding or modifying a lighting/power generating system on their bicycle or bicycle helmet or personal head gear will also have to fall under the no automotive modifications rules as well being they too could be used in or on public roads.

Same with portable radio, entertainment and or communications gear or phone power packs that could also be used while operating any type of self propelled or human powered mobility device being that the devices or add on components could pose a distraction hazard allowing someone to walk out into traffic or distract another person who is also out in public.

See where I am going with this? If you start including some things as automotive or transportation devices you have to include everything remotely or plausibly linkable to the act of artificially aor human powered movement of any form in public or private in with it as well.

To me if it does not require federal registration to own and operate it snot a vehicle of major liability concern.
Same with any modifications or additions to a registrable transportation device that use a stock factory supplied power/control port or other alternately supplied power/control accessory tie in point being the manufacturer deliberately designed their device to work with additional non stock equipment or other undefined accessories through said electrical/electronic connection points.

If it uses a factory equipped power or connection point it's no more of a modification than adding a printer/monitor or any other external device to a computer through a supplied connection port, expansion slot or such and such.

 

I normally don't get involved in discussions like this, but I need to agree with the OP. It seems like there is no logic behind banning automotive topics.
If you think "government compliance issues " is valid then why is there a forum for radio? I am quite sure the government has something to say about that (even in the ISM band).

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks.

 

Please sir, can I start a thread about modifying the exhaust emissions from my horse?

 

Put a cork in it?

 

Put a cork in it?

Typical reply from a moderator...

 

I don't consider anything that does not require a licence plate government/ Department Of Transportation (DOT) registration and a drivers licence of any sort to be a transportation device that would fall under government control and regulation.[...]

From which government?

This is an international forum, each government has it's own rules and regulations about was is and is not street legal, your definition doesn't matter to them.

While the same idea could be applied to other topics regarding safety, rarely do our individual actions pose safety risk to anyone other than ourselves. Vehicles, however, afford every Tom, Dick, and Harry the ability to not just kill themselves, but multiple others as well should their custom ECU fail.

Yes, there are times someone could risk the lives of others using electronics, but we attempt to flag those as well.

 

The only way I can rationalize the automotive ban is that
1) It's about the safety of the visitors here and
2) An outright and complete ban is easier to explain and implement than any lesser ban.

It has nothing to do with laws or liability or anything more than looking out for the safety of the visitors here.

That's just my rationalization. I have no idea if it's correct. However, I think the last time we had a discussion of this there was some agreement with that position.

 

From which government?

This is an international forum, each government has it's own rules and regulations about was is and is not street legal, your definition doesn't matter to them.

Huh? That is way out of the context of anything I have written so far but okay which governments do require any and every mobile piece of machinery to be registered with them regardless of size speed or application and that no one can do any form of work on said equipment due to safety or liability concerns at the government level? ?

Vehicles, however, afford every Tom, Dick, and Harry the ability to not just kill themselves, but multiple others as well should their custom ECU fail.

I am not a follower of 'what if' concerns. I need legitimate confirmable statistical facts to back up such claims.

How many people a year die from vehicle accidents running on 100% factory designed and built equipment Vs those who died from home built electronics failure in a customized vehicle by direct or indirect mishap.

The only way I can rationalize the automotive ban is that
1) It's about the safety of the visitors here and
2) An outright and complete ban is easier to explain and implement than any lesser ban.

As I have stated I can agree with a ban on outright modification to actual factory built automotive vehicles electrical systems such as literal cutting and splicing of factory built wiring harness. No problem or arguments from me on that.

As far as "it's about safety" goes I have to call BS on the what is or is not to be considered safe being there are loads of regular topics relating to novices working with line powered equipment, potentially toxic substances and worse that never raise so much as a safety nazis fussy eyebrow.

Which is why I don't follow the lumping in of anything mobile to be called an automobile and or the addition to such machines operating systems using factory supplied power ports or other such electrical/electronics accessory connection points. For example say I asked about adding a 12 volt power port to my riding lawn mower so that I could plug in a 12v USB power adapter to run music player while I mow my yard and I wanted to know if I could use the spare power pigtail that comes off the back of the main key switch as the 12 volt source.

Now if anyone here told me that was a off limits subject because they deemed my riding lawn mower a automobile and that my addition of a 12 volt power socket could cause the deaths of me or other people around me well I would have to call you and anyone who agrees with you a totally paranoid retarded idiot and would likely write off any further use of this site forever.

I am just asking for clarification here as to when and how everything mobile recently became classified as a automobile and to how any additions to any mobile device using a factory supplied electrical or electronics connection point is deemed an illegal modification?

Just curious as to when any device or machine that can move itself became classified an automobile and thus a serious public safety hazard and to see who actually reads what I write in its correct context.

 

I personally don't like the automotive ban either, but I respect it... if this were my house, it would be my rules... but I'm a guest here and if my host says something makes him uncomfortable, I'm not going to try to impose myself.
On the other hand, I agree entirely with the OP, under no dictionary of any language in any country, does an electric scooter qualify as an automobile.

Automobile: a vehicle used for carrying passengers on streets and roads​

I too think that cancelling that thread was a bit impulsive and arbitrary.