# An almost exciting tale from Strantor's real life

#### t06afre

Joined May 11, 2009
5,934
In the countries with "strict" gun control laws, does the criminal element have "guns"?

Washington DC has some of the strictest gun control laws, yet, the murder rate is still high. Too bad the criminal element there knows the general population is unarmed and them being armed gives the criminal element a huge advantage.
First you must remember. That it is a total different culture regarding guns in Europa than the USA. At lest in my part of Europa that is Scandinavia. Of course some criminal elements do have guns. But mostly to "protect" and intimidate each other. Rather than people not connected to criminal activities. And there is also no such thing as handgun carry permits, or Concealed carry permits. Only police or military personnel are allowed to carry guns in public. But only then ordered to do so. It is some exceptions. Like transporting weapons used for hunting, or target shooting. But it is strict rules about how this should be done.

Last edited:

#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
22,328
Places like Washington DC are also next to places where guns are plentiful and cheap, like Virginia. It makes a difference.

The numbers of gun violence in places like Britain, where guns have never been readily available, are almost nonexistent. Australia banned guns after they were common, and has the problem in spades.

#### THE_RB

Joined Feb 11, 2008
5,438
In the countries with "strict" gun control laws, does the criminal element have "guns"?
...
More than ever! The tougher the gun laws, the higher the price of black market guns and gun running becomes extremely profitable for criminals.

So the facts would be that making guns illegal is like making drugs illegal, and results in lots of guns and drugs sold on street corners to undesirables.

#### loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
A Mo. ammo plant will be forced to close because of E.P.A. regulations ,that will

force ammo to come from China. You will be able to buy ammo in stock until

the first of the year. Check it out.....gun control by ammo.

#### t06afre

Joined May 11, 2009
5,934
More than ever! The tougher the gun laws, the higher the price of black market guns and gun running becomes extremely profitable for criminals.

So the facts would be that making guns illegal is like making drugs illegal, and results in lots of guns and drugs sold on street corners to undesirables.
What do you base this assumption on?

#### strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,507
What do you base this assumption on?
I think he bases it on being from Australia and witnessing it first hand.

#### gerty

Joined Aug 30, 2007
1,298
Places like Washington DC are also next to places where guns are plentiful and cheap, like Virginia. It makes a difference.

The numbers of gun violence in places like Britain, where guns have never been readily available, are almost nonexistent. Australia banned guns after they were common, and has the problem in spades.
They aren't cheap anywhere I've looked, and if you want something popular you'll have to order it and wait. And ammunition is sky high, that's if you can find any at all.

#### tracecom

Joined Apr 16, 2010
3,944
We have been down this road before. All the rhetoric is not going to change anyone's position on gun control or gun ownership. The issue is so polarizing that it is counterproductive to debate. I fully admit that I believe my position is right logically, morally, and legally; I believe it so strongly that I can't even conceive of how any rational person could feel differently.

People with opposing views feel exactly the same way about me. That's just the way it is.

#### t06afre

Joined May 11, 2009
5,934
I think he bases it on being from Australia and witnessing it first hand.
We have been down this road before. All the rhetoric is not going to change anyone's position on gun control or gun ownership. The issue is so polarizing that it is counterproductive to debate. I fully admit that I believe my position is right logically, morally, and legally; I believe it so strongly that I can't even conceive of how any rational person could feel differently.

People with opposing views feel exactly the same way about me. That's just the way it is.
I asked because here in my country guns among criminals is not a very big issue. At least from those who are not involved criminal activity. It is of course a black marked for guns. It would be naive to say something else. For a period my service weapon was a Heckler&Koch MP5, not crippled in any way. And the street value of that gun was easy $3300. Please also note that the gun culture is USA and most Europa is very different. In most Europa strict gun control law works. And illegal hand guns out on the street not a problem. But at this point even thinking about enforcing European style gun control laws in USA would be futile. So much I understand. #12 #### tracecom Joined Apr 16, 2010 3,944 I asked because here in my country guns among criminals is not a very big issue. Guns among criminals is not the problem here either; the problem is the criminals. And yes, I know I just violated my own admonition; I couldn't resist. ETA: Your MP5 is a great gun; extremely fun to shoot. I would love to have one just to enjoy at the range. #### WBahn Joined Mar 31, 2012 26,398 Places like Washington DC are also next to places where guns are plentiful and cheap, like Virginia. It makes a difference. This never struck me as being a very compelling explanation. Washington DC (and virtually every other U.S. city with very strict gun laws) has much higher than average violent crime (both gun and non-gun). The claim is then made that it is because they are next to places where it is easy to get guns. Okay, let's assume that is actually true. Then why isn't the violent crime even higher in the places where it is so easy to get guns? #### KJ6EAD Joined Apr 30, 2011 1,573 You're right but there is a logical explanation. Criminals, being what they are, will be armed in both jurisdictions. In Virginia, they face an armed populace and are deterred, but in DC they are presented with a soft target rich environment by way of gun restrictions. wolf + sheep = fed wolves wolf + sheepdog + sheep = starving wolves Guns are durable goods so proximity to supply is much less important than it would be for consumables but a large percentage of the guns used in crimes in DC come from next door in Maryland. Last edited: #### #12 Joined Nov 30, 2010 18,217 Is there a Kiwi here? I have heard that there are birds that hunt and kill people in New Zealand. True? False? Do people in New Zealand often have guns because there is a real danger of being killed by the local animals? #### Metalmann Joined Dec 8, 2012 703 wolf + sheep = fed wolves wolf + sheepdog + sheep = starving wolves Cannot make it much clearer than that. #### Metalmann Joined Dec 8, 2012 703 Guns among criminals is not the problem here either; the problem is the criminals. And yes, I know I just violated my own admonition; I couldn't resist. ETA: Your MP5 is a great gun; extremely fun to shoot. I would love to have one just to enjoy at the range. I say that the media, (MSM); is who fuels the Fear. They only report what their owners tell them. #### #12 Joined Nov 30, 2010 18,217 As for my experience in U.S.A, I have been robbed at gunpoint once, but they were amateurs and I was not afraid. Just give them the wallet and go through the aggravation of replacing the personal papers. The$10 or \$20 I had wasn't worth arguing about.

The other side of my experience is that my gun has gotten me out of trouble 3 times, and I never had to let anyone see it. The sound of racking a bullet into the carbine ended the plans of the trespasser, the window peeper, and the misguided thug. Not a statistically significant sample, but I count 3 to 1 in favor of having a gun and a 100% rate of not firing any bullets. I call that, "good".

Joined Apr 30, 2011
1,573
I checked the ATF statistics and edited my post above. the biggest sources for crime guns in DC are Maryland, Virginia and Georgia. California, Texas and Florida are also significant sources. The main sourcing factors appear to be convenience followed by ties to drug and gang hot spots.

Last edited:

#### killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
796
in DC they are presented with a soft target rich environment by way of gun restrictions.

wolf + sheep = fed wolves

wolf + sheepdog + sheep = starving wolves
Men in Black (Truck Driver Scene)

People with confidence react to situations differently, they have experience in stressful encounters. Most of the General public don't react with common sense.

People under 20 vs People over 20 is exactly the same. An individual 50 to 80 are in most cases in a short run to react like a Teenager, fear motivation. Fight vs Flight?

Improper handling of guns by novices and improper handling of a stressful situation is a common factor, in gun laws. On the other side you have people who feel they need a weapon for defense, when they have never encountered a need to use one, in their entire life time. It's like getting struck by lighting or worse

I would rather invest the dollar amount toward a home offensive plan, security cams etc. Invest in secure windows and making entry doors more secure by installing an inner and outer door. An outer door should be installed so you can see guests via. a window, even if the camera is not working.

If I need a gun or a boat, I have never had any trouble getting one, or going with people who do. When out camping it's guns and guitars. When boating no need for a gun but, one guy always brings one. He shoots weekly in competitions. I've grown up with guns my hole life I just choose not to own one.