always on Parallel in parallel out bidirectional shifter

Thread Starter

Sniper567

Joined Jul 2, 2022
14
Hello, I'm a mechanical engineer and am working on a personal project where I need a, always on Parallel in parallel out bidirectional shifter, mechanically its very simple to make but I was hoping for a solution that did not involve moving parts. basically the control inputs would be for power and an input for left or right shift. the other inputs and outputs would have to remain connected while being able to circularly shift, the bets example I can give of this is if you have 4 inputs, 1volt input A, 2 volt input B, 3volt input C, and 4volt input D, the outputs should all simalitainisly read the same, 1volt output A, 2 volt output B, 3volt output C, and 4volt output D, once you shift the outputs to the right for example the outputs should change to 4volt output A, 1 volt output B, 2volt output C, and 3volt output D, I've included a pic that shows the same thing, my question is has anyone ever heard of such a circuit or relay that does this or is knowledgeable enough to know how to design one?

ThanksIMG_5825.jpg
 
Last edited:

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
30,419
As is said, a picture is worth a thousand words, and you need another picture.
I cannot really understand what you need from your description.

Can you generate a sort of state table that sequentially shows all the inputs and desired outputs?
 

Thread Starter

Sniper567

Joined Jul 2, 2022
14
As is said, a picture is worth a thousand words, and you need another picture.
I cannot really understand what you need from your description.

Can you generate a sort of state table that sequentially shows all the inputs and desired outputs?
Capture.PNGI'm not sure if this is exactly what your looking for but this is the truth table a mechanical mechanism would produce, as you shift the registry left or right all of the lanes also shift so the input A that had an input of 1v, is now moved to output D if shifted right, notice the inputs never change only the positions of the outputs, but I need these outputs to still be connected when the shift happens
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
30,419
Looks like you want a 4x4 analog multiplexer, not a shift-register.
A good mux for that would be two IC CD4052 CMOS dual 4-channel multiplexers (below).
The four inputs (X0-X3, Y0-Y3) are each respectively connected to the desired four voltage inputs, giving the desired signal at the outputs (X_COM, Y_COM), depending on the mux address.

The multiplexer 2-bit binary address could be controlled by an up/down binary counter, or you could generate the address directly.
(What is generating the control signals?)

How much current will the output loads draw?

Does this sound like that would work for your purposes?

1656797635594.png
 
Last edited:

Thread Starter

Sniper567

Joined Jul 2, 2022
14
Looks like you want a 4x4 analog multiplexer, not a shift-register.
A good mux for that would be two IC CD4052 CMOS dual 4-channel multiplexers (below).
The four inputs (X0-X3, Y0-Y3) are each respectively connected to the desired four voltage inputs, giving the desired signal at the outputs (X_COM, Y_COM), depending on the mux address.

The multiplexer 2-bit binary address could be controlled by an up/down binary counter, or you could generate the address directly.
(What is generating the control signals?)

How much current will the output loads draw?

Does this sound like that would work for your purposes?

View attachment 270568
I’m not 100% sure, the ability to have simultaneous inputs and the ability to shift it up and down sounds good but it sounds like there is only one output? I’d need all the inputs to have an output

as for the the load I’d only be driving small LEDs so nothing much there, as for an input just a simple push button pulse, but if the 4x4 works I’m sure I can implement a binary counter if required
 

Thread Starter

Sniper567

Joined Jul 2, 2022
14
I’m not 100% sure, the ability to have simultaneous inputs and the ability to shift it up and down sounds good but it sounds like there is only one output? I’d need all the inputs to have an output

as for the the load I’d only be driving small LEDs so nothing much there, as for an input just a simple push button pulse, but if the 4x4 works I’m sure I can implement a binary counter if required
I suppose I could use 4 multiplexers with the inputs tied together and each was phase offset by one I think that would work or is that what you where trying to describe?
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
30,419
I suppose I could use 4 multiplexers with the inputs tied together and each was phase offset by one I think that would work or is that what you where trying to describe?
Yes.
The two CD4052 chips I suggested have four 4-channel multiplexers total.
 

Thread Starter

Sniper567

Joined Jul 2, 2022
14
From the diagram that you have shown, I think you will need two CD4052 to complete your job.
Yes.
The two CD4052 chips I suggested have four 4-channel multiplexers total.
Yes.
The two CD4052 chips I suggested have four 4-channel multiplexers total.
Ok I think I follow that, now I do apologize for this curve ball but now that I’m this far down the rabbit hole from my normal mechanical work i have to ask, I had simplified the drawing/explanation, ideally I’d want a 64 lane component, in mechanical terms that’s pretty easy to achieve, if I follow correctly I’d need 64 chips each with 64 channels, and then a binary counter to actually control each chip, and each chip would have to be out of phase by one, and I’m starting to wonder if trying to remove the moving part from the design is really worth it?
 
Last edited:

Thread Starter

Sniper567

Joined Jul 2, 2022
14
Why do you want to do this?
As a mechanical engineer I had a fascination with the enigma machine as it was a mostly mechanical system with only basic illumination wiring and I kinda wanted a little one I could play with, and I was ok with simple LED circuits and all that, but I also wanted to eliminate some of the moving components so there is less complexity and wear on the parts so I had the idea of making the rotating scramblers that the machine used into a solid state scramblers, and here I am down the rabbit hole
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
12,678
What I see is a system with three different connection arrangements. If it is for directly powering lighting devices, even LEDs, then probably an analog multiplexer will not be able to handle the power to be shifted.
No mention has been made about the current being switched, I am guessing that it is more than a few milliamps.

The simple scheme would use three relays, each with 4-pole normally open contacts. These can easily be wired to provide the arrangements shown in post #1, and easily handle voltages and currents up to the contact ratings.
But it would not really be called a "shift" mechanism. It will, however, deliver exactly the functionality requested.
 

ScottWang

Joined Aug 23, 2012
7,272
Ok I think I follow that, now I do apologize for this curve ball but now that I’m this far down the rabbit hole from my normal mechanical work i have to ask, I had simplified the drawing/explanation, ideally I’d want a 64 lane component, in mechanical terms that’s pretty easy to achieve, if I follow correctly I’d need 64 chips each with 64 channels, and then a binary counter to actually control each chip, and each chip would have to be out of phase by one, and I’m starting to wonder if trying to remove the moving part from the design is really worth it?
In this post that you said is more complicated then the post #1, so you could draw a block diagram to show what you want.
 

Thread Starter

Sniper567

Joined Jul 2, 2022
14
What you need is a program, not a circuit. If you understand the Enigma, it should be easy to simulate it.
I thought about that, but I don’t want a computer to simulate it I want a stand alone unit like the original machine, I want to press real buttons and I’ve real wires, not just interact with it on a screen
 

BobTPH

Joined Jun 5, 2013
5,453
I thought about that, but I don’t want a computer to simulate it I want a stand alone unit like the original machine, I want to press real buttons and I’ve real wires, not just interact with it on a screen
I was thinking a micro with real buttons and LEDs to represent the wheels, or even real wheels with stepper motors driving them.
 

Thread Starter

Sniper567

Joined Jul 2, 2022
14
In this post that you said is more complicated then the post #1, so you could draw a block diagram to show what you want.
1656912683603.png
so basically two switches that would cycle the thing left or right and a plus and minus connection for power, it has channels, then you shift right for example pin 1s input would actually come out at pin 2 on the output side and so on down the line.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
12,678
OK, so the intended function is a lot more complex than the drawing in post #1. Really a matrix switching package is what is sought.
Good News is that matrix array switching packages are available commercially, the bad news is they are not cheap. They consist of an X-Y array of switches, individually addressed. The arrays may be reed switches or FET switches, depending on requirements. Mostly they are used with testing systems.
 
Top