# Where can I find this document?

#### praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
I'm looking for this document:

K. Kalgaonkar and B. Raj, One-handed Gesture Recognition using Ultrasonic Doppler Sonar, IEEE Intl. Conf. on Acoustics, Speech and Signal Processing 2009.

It appears a few times in google, but nowhere to download it. There are other publications from the same author that are available as pdf though.

#### SgtWookie

Joined Jul 17, 2007
22,220
That one is pulblished on the IEEE site.
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=4959977
If you are not a member, it's $20. I think student associate memberships are$30/year. Regular memberships are around $150/yr. If you need to keep up with the bleeding edge of technology, this is where you go. #### atferrari Joined Jan 6, 2004 4,095 There is another site asking for 19 USD to enable the .pdf download. Voce fala a lingua também ou é só o nome? Thread Starter #### praondevou Joined Jul 9, 2011 2,942 There is another site asking for 19 USD to enable the .pdf download. Voce fala a lingua também ou é só o nome? LOL, Falo sim, morei lá uns seis anos. I don't want to pay I found a similar document the same author published (freely available) but it doesn't say much... Maybe I should just start experimenting. #### atferrari Joined Jan 6, 2004 4,095 Some months ago I was interested in determination of position of a an audio source by difference of arrival time to two microphones. My extensive search showed that most of the papers on that subject are downloadable only if you pay first. Seems to be big business. Chama ele e pergunta. Talvez o cara vai estar disposto a te responder. Eu moro na Argentina mais fui ao Brasil durante 30 anos por causa do meu travalho. Nunca tirei ferias lá!!! Maybe you have to start experimenting, yes. Merry Christmas. #### Blofeld Joined Feb 21, 2010 83 That one is pulblished on the IEEE site. http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=4959977 If you are not a member, it's$20. I think student associate memberships are $30/year. Regular memberships are around$150/yr. If you need to keep up with the bleeding edge of technology, this is where you go.
I think this is true for most areas of electronics, I have often seen people recommend papers from the IEEE Journal of Solid State Circuits (covering the lastest IC technologies). However, there is one area where you can get very advanved information for free, and that is the design of analog circuits (at the board level, I'm not talking about IC design). The (free) application notes from the big semiconductor companies range from easy introductions to very advanced treatments. The ones that come closest to the "bleeding edge" are probably those by the late Jim Williams:

http://www.linear.com/doclist/?dt=2&au=Jim+Williams

#### praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
Some months ago I was interested in determination of position of a an audio source by difference of arrival time to two microphones.
Interesting. So, any conclusions on that? Wouldn't you need at least 3 microphones in at least a few inches distance to each other?

#### Georacer

Joined Nov 25, 2009
5,182
Guys, please try to provide the translation too, when writing in languages other than english. It kind of ruins my pace, opening Google translate.

Between us, if Bertus saw the foreign text he would consider it ToS violation, so let's not get in his bad side.

#### atferrari

Joined Jan 6, 2004
4,095
So, any conclusions on that? Wouldn't you need at least 3 microphones in at least a few inches distance to each other?
Most probably that is going to be my next project.

Initial conclusion, just from the (limited) reading I did: 2 microphones at a certain distance from each other allow to compare time of arrival difference. The way to know the direction (but not the distance) in what the source is located, is solving the hyperbola where they are the focuses.

It works better if the source is far from them because it tends to reduce uncertainity (asymptotes into play, eh?)

From the top of my head, google for Laurent Kneip - Luxemburg - Lego - sound - audio.

There is a site (from an institute in Luxembourg) where he posted many things. The map of the site is a little bit strange (links do not work straight all the time) but eventually you could reach the pages of interest. You need patience, pencil and paper to note where you are and where you are going to.

In one paper by a (japanese?) scientis, he proposed something with 3 microphones but cannot recall details.

BTW, it was my first reaction too.

An additional detail: it seems that echoes could be THE problem if not handled upfront. All from the reading. No hands-on experience (yet).

I first learnt of this subject from an article authored by L. Kneip, run in the Spanish edition of Elektor magazine.

On some doubts I was unable to solve, I asked him about. He agreed on the translation (to Spanish) had some flwas. Take care just in case.

Meu Deus, acho que falé demais.

#### bertus

Joined Apr 5, 2008
20,773
Hello,

Lets keep ALL conversations in english.
Besides, it is against the rules of the forum to ask for documents that require some fee for free.

Bertus

#### praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
, it is against the rules of the forum to ask for documents that require some fee for free.
Documents can be offered on one site for a fee and on others without. This is not necessarily illegal. I also didn't ask for a free download of copyrighted material. I said I don't want to pay for them.
I just found a document on a US patent site where a very similar document from the same author is freely available...

Thanks

#### steveb

Joined Jul 3, 2008
2,436
Maybe I should just start experimenting.
Always a good idea, but be careful not to "reinvent the wheel".

You may be able to get the publication free through a university library.

#### praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
Always a good idea, but be careful not to "reinvent the wheel".

You may be able to get the publication free through a university library.
Yes I thought so. I contacted them..
Thanks

#### Georacer

Joined Nov 25, 2009
5,182
Recently, the commercial status of scientific papers has made me wonder too. The paper, as is, is it supposed to be free to the public, or restricted only to a community ie, the scientific one?

I have tried searching for some other papers too, that I needed, but found only this kind of sites. Does anybody know what is the deal with papers?

Other than that, the book where all of the papers in that 2009 IEEE conference are gathered costs 1429 USD in amazon.com. I wonder if the papers themselves are for sale or not.

#### steveb

Joined Jul 3, 2008
2,436
Does anybody know what is the deal with papers?
I'm not sure of the exact situation, but here is my view.

Many/most journals and conferences (for example IEEE) require the authors to sign over the copyrights. Hence, they can publish and sell their journals/proceedings. The journals and proceedings are available for purchase, of course. Similarly, books are sold, and libraries buy books/journals/proceedings. Libraries allow people to "borrow" this stuff to read, and the "fair use" clause of copyrights allows people to copy a certain percentage of the document for personal use and/or research/teaching etc.

The papers that are sold on-line are expensive, but it can be well worth the money if one considers the time it takes to go to a library, find the paper and then make photocopies. Also, if the library does not have the journal and has to track it down from other libraries, the wait can be a real problem in terms of opportunity cost. My own view is that, if I need one paper, it is worth the cost, but if I need 100, it's worth a one day trip to the local university library.

There seems to be a grey area here. The author is technically not able to make a pdf available for free, although they often give their own papers away to interested parties in private correspondences in violation of the copyright agreement. I doubt the journal would make a big deal about this, but they certainly don't want the pdf posted for free on a website. Yet, someone can still go to the library and legally copy the paper.

So, my view on this is that it makes sense if we view the purchase of individual papers more as paying for a convenient service. The publisher is likely more interested in protecting their right to provide the service of giving copies of the paper for a fee, rather than the protecting the copyright of the paper itself. In other words, they want to sell the journal as a whole, but when it comes to the paper, they want to sell the service of providing it in a convenient way. As the owners of the copyright, they have the right to package their material in any form. As a journal, we can copy one paper out of it, but if they package it at the paper level, you can only copy a page or two without violating the copyright law. Note that often you see the first page offered for free, either from the publisher, or independently from the author.