What is the point of the warning if this happens?

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,259
If we did decide to go that route -- and there are pros and cons, as always -- then we probably would not make any effort to reorganize existing threads (I'm expressing my personal hypothesis, now, not some consensus view).
I know it would be labor intensive and it will take a true believer to review all that if it doesn't get stuffed into a legacy thread. If someone did write something up, I would hope they post their idea for a few rounds of discussing the pros and cons before presenting something to jrap. Worst case scenario is it's not done, but, it does provide an interesting basis on how one would approach doing that type of forum.

It could be an interesting exercise. I can think of three books I would juxtapose to see how that authors went from zero to something. My three books would be Electronic Communications by Shrader, Art of Electronics by Horowitz and Hill, NEETS by the navy. NEETS and Electronic Communications go from the basics onward, and I know chapter 1 in AOE doesn't start with the same basics as the other two. I'm sure AOE was written with those basics as a pre-requisite to the book. I'd even throw in the eBooks used on this site in the mix.

I don't expect that idea to go anywhere. I mentioned the four books I would use ... do you have a few favorites WBahn?
 

J_Rod

Joined Nov 4, 2014
109
Because they might not be 100% worthless. They might have some merit of their own even if not posted in exactly the right place. That, and they could be completely 100% pertinent to the (old) discussion at hand, but simply because they are new, they should be deleted?

Do you really think post deletion is the answer? if you spent 30min typing up a thoughtful and helpful reply and then someone else just disappeared it from the internet forever because they felt it was too new to go with the old discussion, how would you feel about that? probably only slightly more pissed than if the thread got locked.
Post deletion would be counterproductive to the purpose of these fora, and their individual's threads, but would serve an organizational end. The post in the instance above was moved but not deleted, and a little note let readers know similar content from where that thread was removed.
 
Post deletion would be counterproductive to the purpose of these fora, and their individual's threads, but would serve an organizational end. The post in the instance above was moved but not deleted, and a little note let readers know similar content from where that thread was removed.
Why do you insist upon self contradiction?:confused::confused::confused:
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,226
One of the general philosophies here is that a thread belongs to the thread starter. Not all forums take this view point, which is fine. This forum does.
Firstly, thank you for explaining your stance with real reasons that can't be clearly boiled down to "because I said so."

Secondly, when you say "this forum," what/who are you referring to? When/where did "this forum" outline its general philosophies? I'm a part of "this forum" (by my definition) and I don't take the same view point. I'm not the only one. This isn't even "my" thread. AFAIK there has been no poll of the members to resolve majority feeling on the topic. To protect myself from any flack on the grounds of assumed misconception on my part that this forum operates as a democracy, I sought to poll the authority figures of their opinions on the matter; if the regular forum members don't constitute "this forum," then surely the moderation team does, right? But apparently they don't have an opinion at all. You're the only one who posted a previously undocumented reply (thanks again, BTW).

I guess in the absence of a moderation team with independent opinions (aside from yourself), and given the fact that whoever or whatever "this forum" is, its direction is determined by that moderation team, the net result is that we are all on ship where the helm is up for grabs to whichever moderator can beat their chest the loudest. No contest who holds that title. @Wendy you win. Your vote alone truly does a consensus make; I shouldn't have questioned that. This is your forum to do with it as you please, and the rest of us are just guests. I won't make any more waves. I only hope that being the biggest kid on this inconsequential virtual playground quenches your thirst for power, and none bleeds over to affect people around you in real life.
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
22,138
I guess in the absence of a moderation team with independent opinions (aside from yourself), and given the fact that whoever or whatever "this forum" is, its direction is determined by that moderation team, the net result is that we are all on ship where the helm is up for grabs to whichever moderator can beat their chest the loudest. No contest who holds that title. @Wendy you win. Your vote alone truly does a consensus make; I shouldn't have questioned that. This is your forum to do with it as you please, and the rest of us are just guests. I won't make any more waves. I only hope that being the biggest kid on this inconsequential virtual playground quenches your thirst for power, and none bleeds over to affect people around you in real life.
Why do you wish to make this personal?

I've been here a while. Georacer, MrChips, and Hmjr do not participate as much, so besides Bertus I have been here the longest.

I explained the reasoning, you did not like it, so you had to hear it from someone else. Good enough, I did back off.

These policies were here when I joined, long before I became a moderator. I understood the reasoning behind them and bought into them. I may not be the best at explaining, but there it is.

You can dislike me if you want, but I will still do the job I believe needs done, and I will try not to make it personal or take it personal.
 
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strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,226
Why do you wish to make this personal?
Last night I did. Now I don't. I got a little hot & bothered by this. I'm letting it go now. Sorry for all the drama.

I get increasingly more frustrated every time something like this comes up. Over the years I have seen countless issues brought to light with simple solutions, countless stupid-simple-to-implement suggestions for improvement, that never get addressed. If it's a minor forum change, it doesn't happen because the site owners are out to lunch. If it's a minor adjustment in moderation policy, it doesn't happen because people are too obstinate and set in their ways; "this is the way we've always done it" mentality.



Every time one of these threads comes up, I know it's futile but for some reason I can't help but engage. Each time it's like an echo chamber that turns out to be a candle in a sealed jar.

That, and you've been waving your moderator stick so much that I'm getting sea sick.

And I have personal crap going on. Perfect storm for me to act like a douchebag. I'll work on my end; I would appreciate if you'd work on yours.
 

ScottWang

Joined Aug 23, 2012
6,882
GopherT, strantor:
Please recall your memory why you come here and join the forum?
And be careful any bad words from your mouths or fingers they will back to you.

Are you come here to arguing the tiny thing that our mods team have been made?
Who give you the rights to speak like a commander to our mods team, please try to remember that you guys just a member, so you only have rights to do the suggestion, crossing the line then it's too over, as I'm also a member, do you think can I force bertus to do anything, if you think I can't do that, then why you over the line, our mods team for the forum discussed many things under background, even bertus or jrap never force us to do anything, if we have anything always through the discussion to make the final decision and to make forum working properly.

Most of newbies do was the hijacking, and from many years ago, the old moderators already do the same thing, we think it's ok, so we followed it, that was to created a new thread for the newbies or any members, if the new reply is worth to keep then we will keep it and closed the thread, if the reply is useless then we could be delete it, if you think any thread worth to reopen then name one and you also need to ask the TS do they want to reopen it? (Now what we do are case by case)

If you guys have too much energy then there are so many members need to help, those are the thing you should do, not this tiny things.

If you disagreed the things what mods team made then both of you just go to create a new ee forum, when the members over 20 thousands then we can discuss again, because until that time then you will know what we do, if you don't want to do that then just keep quiet, you can suggesting your idea, the others are out of your control as we can't control anything at all.

The rules is every forum has its rules, every members have to follow the rules, whatever you like or not, you are here one day then you should follow one day, it's simple.

Both of you, and me, we are here just a member, only has the rights to do the suggestion, if the owner won't change the rules then the rules will be keeping that way, I have no rights to change the rules.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,259
Rules can be changed.

This forum didn't have any rules or guidance in the beginning other than the standard blurb that came with the forum software.

On edit

The homework help rules were posted Aug 6th, 2006.

I'm sure the organization would entertain any and all suggestions for improvement.

This is dependent on the manner presented. Make a cogent arguement.
 
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Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
22,138
Actually the rules have evolved after a lot of discussion, and have feed through several different iterations of software. I don't know what was before V-Bulletin, but there was something different. The safety rules in particular, both the ToS and Rules of Conduct were written by Dave, a former administrator before Bertus. We had a open discussion, somewhere around 2010, as to what they should be. I was not a moderator then, but I was extremely active in the discussions. Got called names then too, because all rules gore someones sacred cow. Folk hate to be told what they can not do, even if it seems like common sense.

Rules that need to be changed are. I was really glad to see the automotive restrictions go, though the aircraft versions remains. Some rules (or removal of same) make my life a lot easier here. I don't visualize me sorting through topics, though some other moderator might. More power to them if they want to spend several months doing it (maybe years).

I took on the Completed Projects forum index because I felt it needed done. I also tightened up the requirements when links started breaking from other websites. I put in the work, and actively maintain that forum when new entries are submitted.

I really wanted something like a cookbook I used to see when I was in college (managed to get a copy from a flea market). Looking it it seems simplistic now, but I studied it hard what I was in college. It is also why I have put so much effort drawing schematics. I have hundreds drawn in the galleries, most drawn before I became a moderator.

This site was started sometime around 2002. I joined in 2008, and became a moderator in 2011. I miss a lot the old crew, whom I still have the greatest respect for. BeenThere in particular I mourn greatly.

I know I will screw up occasionally (like the time I spam banned JoeJester, late night computing strikes again). But if I really believe something I will stand my ground. It is how I am wired. In real life I am not a shy person, but I suspect I come across more obnoxious here than in person. It is the curse of text, just like the curse of the internet is having someone you like completely drop out of sight, with no clue what happened to them.

I have been out of work for 1/2 a year. I really don't want do serve fries, but if I have too...
 
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ScottWang

Joined Aug 23, 2012
6,882
Rules can be changed.

This forum didn't have any rules or guidance in the beginning other than the standard blurb that came with the forum software.

On edit

The homework help rules were posted Aug 6th, 2006.

I'm sure the organization would entertain any and all suggestions for improvement.

This is dependent on the manner presented. Make a cogent arguement.
Yes, rules can be changed, before it changed then it just keeping that way.
If you think some rules should be modify or adding something, please post your idea on Feedback and Suggestions forum then our mods team will discuss it.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,259
Suggestions forum then our mods team will discuss it.
If the moderation team fails to "agree with" and one gets enough support from the other members, the recourse is a message to jrap. The moderators are NOT the final word. This does not mean I don't support the moderating team, it just illustrates an unwritten recourse process.

I haven't ran across something I felt strongly about to change the rules. Like I said, I've seen some labor intensive ideas being bantered about, but upon further review, it's a tasking I wouldn't assign to a moderation team. For the record, I am a common member here. I have moderated in other forums. Undue tasking on volunteer moderators is unnecessary.

The last thing I felt somewhat strongly about was something that could have been a misinterpretation. From my experience in forums, that happens alot. The fault can lie with the reader. There have been posters who, for whatever reason, choose words that can inflame in the contemporary usage, yet the words are perfectly consistent with the written sentence. Who is at fault? The writer? NO. I assume this


And if my grammar is insufficient, I expect:


This doesn't mean we should all write like @Hypatia's Protege, but I do enjoy reading his muses.
 
Speaking of:
There have been posters who, for whatever reason, choose words that can inflame...
What's with this?
This doesn't mean we should all write like @Hypatia's Protege, but I do enjoy reading his muses.
---Emphasis added---

In the words of Lionel Twain: "Mind your pronouns!" --- I assure you - attempted 'incitement' of an 'identity crisis' both won't work and can do nothing to mitigate my (alleged) grandiloquence;):p


With friendly intent:)
HP:cool:
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,259
I am thinking in the past about other posters with that reference. None of which have appeared here in AAC. They are however included "in toto" of all my readings since the beginning of my time on various online mediums, from the days of 300 baud modems to high speed cable. @Hypatia's Protege on the other hand, enhances the forum with her musings.
 

DerStrom8

Joined Feb 20, 2011
2,390
Who give you the rights to speak like a commander to our mods team, please try to remember that you guys just a member
Ok, I told myself I wasn't going to respond anymore but this has gotten way out of hand. Let's get this straight:

1) Moderators are no better than the other members. Get that through your thick heads. @ScottWang this is mainly in response to your post quoted above. That type of talk, that you moderators are "better" than everyone else, is downright unacceptable and is part of the reason why this forum has gone down the toilet.

2) Moderating is not that much of a difficult job, so stop acting like it is. If it's so hard for you, then you're obviously not cut out for it and don't belong on the moderating team.

3) Being a moderator is not really any different from being a regular member. You just happen to have a few extra tools you can use if you see a spammer or troll, or a report of either one.

4) Just because you have the power to edit or delete posts doesn't mean you should take every opportunity to use it. Many of you moderators have become drunk with this power and it comes across loud and clear. If you feel like you have a lot of power over other people, you are not in a good position to be a moderator and should step down.

5) It's imperative that you follow the ToS but it's even more imperative that you use common sense. If one member is riling up a large group of well-respected members, it's time to look at that one member. Don't tell the group of respected members to just ignore him. Suppose there is a crazy man with a gun going around shooting people. Do you go after the group of people being attacked and tell them to wear bulletproof vests? Sure, it might work temporarily, but wouldn't it make more sense to go after the shooter and stop his crazy behavior? The "ignore" tool (bulletproof vest) might help in the short run, but it should not be the permanent solution.

6) If a member posts something offensive or inappropriate, by all means moderate or delete it (or, if it's not extremely pressing, message the poster and ask him/her to remove it). However, it is common courtesy (and the responsibility of the moderators) to NOTIFY THE MEMBER who posted it and explain WHY it was removed. Disappearing posts with no explanation reflect very poorly on the moderating team and is a very unprofessional way to conduct business.

This is all spoken from the point of view of a moderator on another forum, so I'm not just an angry member. I do have some experience in this matter, and I know corruption when I see it. Many of the staff members here have become corrupt megalomaniacs and they're mainly the ones creating a hostile atmosphere for the regulars who care about the future of this site. I have lost so much respect for you guys (and gals) and you have greatly disappointed me. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Moderators, take a step back and look at the threads like this. Read what the members are saying and try to see it from their point of view. They are calling into question the moderators' tactics, which is exactly what you've asked them to do--If they disagree with the rules or the way they are enforced, bring it to your attention. So far, instead of trying to understand their point of view, you simply defend yourselves and don't try to find ways to compromise and find methods that work for everyone. That is not "keeping the peace", which is the entire purpose of moderators on a forum.
 

OBW0549

Joined Mar 2, 2015
3,300
That type of talk, that you moderators are "better" than everyone else, is downright unacceptable and is part of the reason why this forum has gone down the toilet.
Of the discussion boards I've participated in so far where the moderators ended up adopting a "we're the moderators, you're just members" attitude, every one eventually perished. Some exploded violently, with regulars abruptly leaving the board en masse and going elsewhere, and some just slowly (or not so slowly) declined as people drifted away, leaving only a small handful of diehards to carry on amidst a slow trickle of newcomers, few of whom stayed for any length of time.

When I came here 11 months ago, AAC seemed like a reasonably well-run place so I decided to join. Were I to encounter this board today, though, and seen what ScottWang wrote in #69 above, I wouldn't even give AAC a second glance.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
25,548
Ok, I told myself I wasn't going to respond anymore but this has gotten way out of hand. Let's get this straight:

1) Moderators are no better than the other members. Get that through your thick heads. @ScottWang this is mainly in response to your post quoted above. That type of talk, that you moderators are "better" than everyone else, is downright unacceptable and is part of the reason why this forum has gone down the toilet.
I'm very sure that Scott's remark is an unfortunate translation of what he was trying to say and, with the chosen wording, comes across very poorly.

5) It's imperative that you follow the ToS but it's even more imperative that you use common sense. If one member is riling up a large group of well-respected members, it's time to look at that one member. Don't tell the group of respected members to just ignore him.
So it is okay for a "well-respected member" to go out of their way to insert themselves into threads for the sole purpose of mocking and insulting another member? Is that the atmosphere that you promoted on these other boards where you were a moderator? Mods should do nothing about that (except, of course, ban the member being mocked and insulted so that the "well-respected member" feels good)?
 
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