# Water molecular resonance

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#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Yes, Virginia, such a thing actually happens, and has been measured. Read through this link - http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/vibrat.html.

Is this going to be helpful to the over unity hydrolysis crowd, though? Probably not. The multiplicity of modes of vibration smears the resonant response out too far to be particularly useful - something like trying to feed energy into a tuning fork with a large number of differently-tuned arms. No one frequency is going to work.

And then there is the little matter of frequency. We notice a useful absorbance peak at 970 nm that the chemistry crowd checks to look for the presence of water vapor. Water absorbs energy at that wavelength because that is one of the principal resonant frequencies - the interaction with the water molecules takes energy from the photons and decreases the overall intensity of the received light beam. Look up atomic absorption spectrophometry to learn more.

Anyway, a 970 nm wavelength works out to a frequency on the order of 3.145 THz, or 3,145,000 MHz. This is a bit high for electronics to conviently handle. That's well above radar frequencies, in the near infra-red.

The next time you see a circuit that actually claims to split water molecules apart by exciting them in some chamber that uses off-the-shelf electronic components - well, you might want to ask for proof. This is along the same line as the proud owner of a Piper Cub claiming to have reached a speed of 2,000 knots IAS in level flight by burning gasoline blended with a secret herbal extract. Even if he has a couple of buddies who back him up on the claim (yep, got my Cessna 192 doing 1880 knots - be better as soon as I get a new prop) don't necessarily make it believable.

#### jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
8,077
I get 3.14X10^14 Hz. Isn't that 314 THz, not that it really matters.

The far IR gets into the the low THz band, but that is mostly translational and rotational absorptons.

John

#### HarveyH42

Joined Jul 22, 2007
426
Yes, Virginia, such a thing actually happens, and has been measured. Read through this link - http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/vibrat.html.

Is this going to be helpful to the over unity hydrolysis crowd, though? Probably not. The multiplicity of modes of vibration smears the resonant response out too far to be particularly useful - something like trying to feed energy into a tuning fork with a large number of differently-tuned arms. No one frequency is going to work.

And then there is the little matter of frequency. We notice a useful absorbance peak at 970 nm that the chemistry crowd checks to look for the presence of water vapor. Water absorbs energy at that wavelength because that is one of the principal resonant frequencies - the interaction with the water molecules takes energy from the photons and decreases the overall intensity of the received light beam. Look up atomic absorption spectrophometry to learn more.

Anyway, a 970 nm wavelength works out to a frequency on the order of 3.145 THz, or 3,145,000 MHz. This is a bit high for electronics to conviently handle. That's well above radar frequencies, in the near infra-red.

The next time you see a circuit that actually claims to split water molecules apart by exciting them in some chamber that uses off-the-shelf electronic components - well, you might want to ask for proof. This is along the same line as the proud owner of a Piper Cub claiming to have reached a speed of 2,000 knots IAS in level flight by burning gasoline blended with a secret herbal extract. Even if he has a couple of buddies who back him up on the claim (yep, got my Cessna 192 doing 1880 knots - be better as soon as I get a new prop) don't necessarily make it believable.
Perhaps the pilot and passengers were burning a little of that herb during the test...

970 nM? I've got some LEDs that are 940 nM, think that would be close enough? Wonder how many LEDs it would take to keep a cup of coffee warm...

#### Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
12,497
I get 3.14X10^14 Hz. Isn't that 314 THz, not that it really matters.

The far IR gets into the the low THz band, but that is mostly translational and rotational absorptons.

John
I work it out to be
Rich (BB code):
c = speed of light = 3e8 meters per second
f = c /λ
= 3e8 / 970e-9
= 3.0927e14
= 309 THz
That is moving right along so to speak

#### jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
8,077
My slide rule must have a warp... obviously I only checked the decimal.

John

#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Decimal points. Thanks for the corrections. Blew it in the nanometers. Still hard to get there with an LM324.

#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
21,906
How about a microwave oven? 2.4GHz causes polar molecule to rotate, causing heat (no splitting I've ever heard of though). Wouldn't that be considered a form of resonance?

I've actually refrained from mentioning this, figuring it would come back super garbled, defended to the death, and totally uncomprehended.

#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Responding to some frequency and resonating with it are not quite the same thing - http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2005-01/1106436863.Ph.r.html.

Think of hold a swing with a child in it. You can always maintain contact and push it back and forth. Or you can push in one direction at a rhythm that equals the natural pendulum frequency of the swing. In the latter case, you add energy at resonance, and the amplitude of the swing's motion may easily increase. In the first case, the energy input will always be the same and will be directly proportional to the amplitude of motion.

#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
21,906
True, this mechanical motion (rotation) is also dependent on frequency. There is some kind of coupling going on there, but I'm not sure of the details.

#### Turdnugget

Joined Mar 3, 2012
23
This topic hasn't been touched since 2008.. Thought I would throw salt on a old wound.. We are talking about resonance in this topic in regards to the water molecule... What I'm curious about is comparing the so called water capacitor to a standard capacitor... In a regular capacitor there is not a focus on the molecular resonance in order to create a amplified gain of electrical displacement with any other dielectric material... The resonance is solely based on the dielectric constant.. Why not focus on water based on its dielectric value like a normal capacitor?... The next problem in line for functionality, is how can you create a capacitor situation with the water that will inhibit current since there is a presence of continuity within the water.. Well it seems that it possibly can be accomplished with the use of resistive magnet wire within the LC circuit supplying the voltage to the cell.. so if your water has a resistance of 100 ohms and you want to apply 600v with 60ma of current you may need a resistance of 9.9k ohms within your LC circuit... Preferably a inductor to reduce losses.. Resistive wire will allow a voltage to pass while inhibiting the current.. possibly allowing the process to remain physical and reduce the chemical interactions that would occur with currents.. Just because there is continuity in the water does not mean you cannot tune into the rhythm of the dielectric.. Maybe this is over my head but i thought maybe people are trying to make something more complex then it ought to be.

#### Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
21,906
Not really, the core problem is overunity, which is not allowed at AAC. Beenthere has passed away just over a year ago, this really is a dead subject. I am locking it because of this, if you wish to continue the topic please start a new thread on it.

As mentioned, true resonance (as in LASERs and MASERs) is in the terrahertz range, it doesn't apply. Yet the overunity crowd, in an effort to explain the impossible, throw the word around as if it can explain a major violation in the Laws of Physics.

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