@ Thatoneguy

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by loosewire, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. loosewire

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    You seem to understand issue's,I had a couple of young guy's
    ask me the answer to what going on in our country. I said that
    our congress needs to debate on the floor of congress. Giving
    there duty to eight congressmen so they can get relected.
    They want to tell people back home that they were left out
    of debate. They would have done something different. So the
    young guys in there 20 and 30 can't see light at the end of
    the tunnel,they seem really concerned.
  2. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
    The eastern world, it is exploding
    Violence flarin', bullets loadin'
    You're old enough to kill, but not for votin'
    You don't believe in war, but what's that gun you're totin'
    And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin'
    But you tell me
    Over and over and over again, my friend
    Ah, you don't believe
    We're on the eve
    of destruction:eek:
  3. nerdegutta


    Dec 15, 2009
    What song...?
  4. VoodooMojo

    Active Member

    Nov 28, 2009
  5. loosewire

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  6. thatoneguy


    Feb 19, 2009
    We aren't in a good spot to see light at the end of the tunnel.

    Everybody is blaming everybody, the US is debt up to it's ears, and in debt to one of the planned future enemies of a traditional hot war. House blames Congress who blames the House and the President who blames both. Rather than coming up with any sort of workable plan, they are fiddling while Rome burns, so to speak.

    The sheer number of public sector jobs is out of control. As I've stated in other threads, 52% of the employees in the US work for Federal, State, County, and local agencies. That 52% is paid by taxes from those who do not work in those areas. Of that 48% remaining, 25% are unemployed, despite the announcement that unemployment is at 9%, that is over the past 3 months, if they look at the U6 (over 6 months unemployed and have temporarily given up looking for work), over 25% are unemployed. Creating more government jobs to employ them is pointless, since the amount of tax money coming in to pay salaries already isn't enough. Here we get into deficent spending and the national debt.

    I personally feel GM and banks who needed Trillions of dollars from the government to keep operating should have been left to die. New small auto companies, or other existing auto companies would have filled the orders of the supply line chains for the major manufacturers. I'm referring to places that make auto-glass, mirrors, seat upholstery, tires, etc. Those were all included in "Jobs Lost" if GM didn't get the bailout. Saturn, Toyota, Mazda, Ford, and perhaps a new domestic company would have started buying from them, so without GM closing we will never know if they would have been lost.

    I know several small businesses that have closed, leaving over 2,000 people without jobs. They were never offered a bailout, but when it comes to 50,000 jobs, they deserve a bailout? That's just scatch each other's back politics.

    Then, the worse part:

    The population is as polarized as ever, even worse than the levels in the era of the civil war, mostly over entitlements from the government.

    People are so wound up over "left wing" and "right wing" that they don't even care about the actual issues, they just want to complain about things that aren't the way they personally want them.

    We do have a lack of leadership and direction, at all levels, and I am not sure if that can be corrected. A sort of "whatever, somebody will take care of it" attitude has been bred into people under 25, though there are many exceptions. Most assume college is a given, even though they don't know what their major will be, or how it will be paid. Family money is going away with the 50% death tax now back in force.

    The middle class is getting taxed for both the poor and the ludicrously rich, and those taxes will go up. New laws have been enacted allowing restriction of privacy (yeah, they aren't doing NOW, but once the foot is in the door...).

    I won't even get into the "undocumented worker" issue. The reason being if the poor here weren't given free money to survive, there wouldn't be any jobs for undocumented workers to take.
  7. loosewire

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    I was seated among some 20 to 30 year olds ,I was surprised that some
    were hungry,waiting for someone to bring food. Hungry and no money,no
    jobs Injured from temporary work.I did not see the whole picture,but I saw
    25 hungry able bodied young men with a bleak future.There work and Injury
    record could not be good they had a lot of bad human resouce Information
    against them.They weren't angry,but there was other waiting to get them to do
    outlaw protest.So far they are only talking,in the background there people
    waiting for the election cycle to start. That must be the reason that the
    streets are semi-quiet,people don't want to lose there jobs and be seen in
    crowds.The hunger grows every day,guys living off hand outs,no transportation.
    You hate to see people grabing little pieces of food,when they sit in the circle
    and show there sign to speak,to agree,think its a good Idea.They become a part
    this society again,what left. Among the masse's.
  8. thatoneguy


    Feb 19, 2009
    I'm nearly positive that with a different president and congress, basically, one that inspires and gives confidence to people with money, is elected, then those able to start new ventures will actually open up new businesses or expand their own.

    Right now, I know several "large" small businesses that are on a hiring and wage freeze simply because of the instability at every level in the government we have today. Last year, most businesses had no idea what they would be paying in taxes until January, so they couldn't budget for the unknown. The same thing is happening this year.

    Those with a large amount of money and the ability to start a business aren't doing so to be selfish, they are simply afraid of throwing good money after bad. When the stock market is allowed to follow the natural progression, without "corrections" to make the economy "look good", people will be more confident, and there WILL be more jobs. Unfortunately, that means that the stock market needs to do what it is in place for: Reflect the state of business and industry today. We are in the beginning of a depression, not coming out of a recession. If the stock market were allowed to go through the natural good times and bad times that all businesses go through, there wouldn't be a huge house of cards that is about to come tumbling down when a single card is nudged.

    Unfortunately, some feel the stock market influences the economy, rather than the other way around. Those people happen to be in power right now, both elected, appointed, and private entities. It is estimated that the DOW is about 2,000 points higher than actual P&L statements from the companies suggest it should be. Those in power think that money just keeps increasing, and never has down/up cycles. When it starts going down, they inject money not into the businesses that the stock market reflects, but directly into the stock market. This has the same effect as putting lipstick on a pig, as Wookie would put it.

    It will get much worse before it starts getting better again, however, those in power do not want the people to know that, just like the housing crisis. They've set everything up for a fall of which the likes we have never seen. :mad:
    strantor likes this.
  9. strantor

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 3, 2010
    I was reading your whole post saying to myself "uh huh, yeah, yes, yep" and then I stumbled onto this gem:
    Holy carp! Its a revelation! How did I never make that connection?
    excellent point
  10. loosewire

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    Human Resource computers will rule the job market going
    into the future.Even umemployed have use the computer
    in Florida to get benefits.No computer,get on the bus and
    come to the local office and use the computer. Name a
    career type that you know that has lost a job,I can't
    name one right off,I think about this stuff all the time
    and I don't know anyone for sure that has lost a job.
  11. thatoneguy


    Feb 19, 2009
    Job loss has gone down, however, that doesn't help the large number of people that became unemployed last year, and are still unemployed, or severely underemployed for their skillset.

    If you are a turbine mechanic, for example, and lose your job, you work at McDonald's or whatnot to try to make ends meet. That person is virtually "unemployed", as the debts he had while making much more money didn't go down when he started making less money.

    A person should pay their debts and get out of debt as fast as possible, and live debt free. Those relying on credit to survive or to keep up with the neighbors that lost their jobs/didn't get a raise/don't make enough to keep up with the Jonse's are now protesting the fact that not everybody is equal.

    Not all people have equal abilities, or equal intelligence. Therefore, some will make more money by being able to do things a large part of the population is unable to. To ask the government to pay those unable to excel at a productive and well paying job the same as those who earn their money is slightly insane. So is complete debt forgiveness, at some point, you were given money you didn't have, and promised to pay it back. Granted, collectors have gotten rather greedy with the amount of interest, but at least paying back what you borrowed is the responsibility of the borrower.

    If everybody were paid the same, no matter what their occupation is, there wouldn't be any reason to excel. People, in general, would perform the bare minimum needed to be paid, then go play. "Everybody is equal, including income" is something that has crept into society over the past 20 years, and is based in fantasy. The problem is the government has been supporting that ideology since the Great Depression.

    I am not the kind of person that wants all of my decisions made by somebody else. Most people aren't, but when it comes to money, many people will sell their soul for more. That's why I said it is going to get worse before it gets better.

    The more I see gong on, the more I realize that the movie "Idiocracy" was a documentary.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  12. Wendy


    Mar 24, 2008
    A lot of what you describe is communism, which doesn't work due to human nature.

    I liked the way Heinlein put it. Give a chef a bag of apples, flour, and sugar and you end up with a tasty pie, a plus value. Give a idiot the same ingredients and they'll ruin them, a negative value. Not all labor is of equal value.

    The living wage question is different though. Every year we loose people who are homeless due to heat or cold. Pure communism does not work, but neither does pure capitalism. There has to be a balance somewhere.

    The thing that is best about capitalism is the encouragement to improve yourself. Pure capatilism without restraint can lead to the corporate state, where corporations rule the government, pass laws that support themselves at the expense of people, and basically take what they want to the point people can no longer start their own business without having it stolen from under them if it is too successful.
  13. strantor

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 3, 2010
    I don't think he was describing communism as if he condones it. I think he was saying exactly what you said here:

    A natural response to being under a government who preaches "don't worry, we got this" since birth.
    So what can we do about this? More and more people my age are going to start waking up as I have started and they are going to realize that something needs to be done. What advice would you give to us, the 25 y/o future leaders of the "free" world, to get this hellbound train back on track? I think the tables have turned too far; too much inertia in the wrong direction for us to turn them back. I think we need to push a BIG RESET button.
  14. justtrying

    Senior Member

    Mar 9, 2011
    to add to what Strantor said,

    the realization that no system works has finally settled in for some people, but no-one nows what to do about it, no revolution can deal with this since there is no single entity holding control. Forget about left and right wing, aside for views on guns and abortion rights they will lead to the same end. May be if we keep turning in the wrong direction we endup doing a 360?
  15. thatoneguy


    Feb 19, 2009
    I abhor communism, socialism, and all forms of it in disguise or dressed up in pretty words.

    Taking from somebody to give to somebody else is like a .gov Robin Hood. Charity should be voluntary, not forced.

    If somebody feels the need to use government backed extortion for a salary increase and a retirement plan, they don't qualify as employees, just thugs, and that shows through by how those people act when they don't get their way, or somebody else does their job for them.
  16. strantor

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 3, 2010
    Yes all these minor issues I feel have been fed to us as a distraction and an agent do divide us against each other. What was that quote about a nation divided falling? We've taken the bait and closed our minds to the point where it would be near impossible to get us to work together as a team. If we were to attempt to change the government, nobody would agree on how it should be and it would just me major chaos
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