super capacitor to heat mini element w/ usb to charge, about the size of a quarter.

Thread Starter

devotiouswarrior

Joined Dec 15, 2016
8
thnx for your time, i'm building a mini fuse ignitor that can be rechargeable and small.
an idea that's gotten me in to super capacitors over batteries and with adding a usb to charge seems very viable.
I don't know much on the math of electronics, to work out the resistors needed to control charge release for the element.
element research has brought me to vape pens and most of them use a 4.5 v to heat a variety of easily purchased/ replaced elements and finally, a simple momentary switch/ button is in the plan. (for the application i'm using an alligator clip, but the connection points/ contacts are at the thumb and finger end and the wires are insulated all the way up. sounds weird but for the space provided it's the best/ cost effective/ durable option I have, and it will work perfect).

the board (if needed) can also be used to mount the whole unit within a key ring for location space/ durability needs/ travel. (otherwise some kind of mount(s) location/ spot for a key ring.
any thoughts and my main question is, will this work..?.. and if so, what's the resistance, super capacitor needed to have multiple ignitions with one charge? (at least 15-20..., ? hopefully more)

many thnx for any info. that can be provided.
namast'e
devo
 

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Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
11,651
will this work..?.. and if so, what's the resistance, super capacitor needed to have multiple ignitions with one charge? (at least 15-20..., ? hopefully more)
Welcome to AAC.
A rechargeable battery will be more effective than a supercap, since you need a voltage source which is reasonably constant over a significant period.
How much current does an ignitor draw and for how long? Those values will determine the number of ignitions you'll get from a single charge.
 

Thread Starter

devotiouswarrior

Joined Dec 15, 2016
8
Welcome to AAC.
A rechargeable battery will be more effective than a supercap, since you need a voltage source which is reasonably constant over a significant period.
How much current does an ignitor draw and for how long? Those values will determine the number of ignitions you'll get from a single charge.


hi and thnx for the warm welcoming.
as for draw,.. not too sure.
the length of time needed would be only 1-2 seconds,if that. any longer and it's not instantaneous
enough. vape pen elements are around 4-4.5 v and the R/C cars glow plug is 3v D cell,.. so that's the ballpark of math i'm dealing with.
I've looked into the re-chargeable batteries/ reg. batteries and for the size i'm goin for they just don't offer the amperage to heat any kind of basic wire element (at least not a wire that won't burn out too fast either).
I started with a glow plug for a nitro R/C car (runs of 3v d cell) but how to get the same element to heat red hot to ignite a fuse, ... with a 3v button cell. (or sml bank of 3-4 button cells)
if the size can be shrunk down to fit inside of a key ring about the size of a quarter or loonie,for mounting/ durability / travel purposes. that's what i'm looking to build.
after coming across a video on the net about a super capacitor pulled from an old vcr, then soldered to a USB. that's where I got the idea to implement for more amperage. also, super capacitors are quickly rechargeable, but now needs some kind of resistance to control the discharge. once again size is of importance and the idea won't work without fitting within the space.
but if you know how to light up a basic glow plug for an R/C car with a couple of 3v button cells,... i'm ALL ears.

thnx again for the chatter
peace d
 

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
11,651
From what I read a R/C glow plug draws about 2A-3A at 1.2V. You won't get that much current from button cells.
What supercap did you have in mind? They can't hold as much energy per unit volume as batteries.
 

AlbertHall

Joined Jun 4, 2014
10,412
The element in e-cigs is designed to be connected to a single li-ion cell - no resistors needed. They also, generally, have a USB charger.
 

Thread Starter

devotiouswarrior

Joined Dec 15, 2016
8
The element in e-cigs is designed to be connected to a single li-ion cell - no resistors needed. They also, generally, have a USB charger.

hi and thnx for the input.
love the idea, but battery is too big. i'm not too sure of the metallurgy but whatever the element is made of can be changed too as well size or number of coils for addressing the compactability issue.
know anything about element metallurgy ?
i'm checkin some more on the net in this area alas is where I am stumped.
thnx again for your input.
 

Thread Starter

devotiouswarrior

Joined Dec 15, 2016
8
From what I read a R/C glow plug draws about 2A-3A at 1.2V. You won't get that much current from button cells.
What supercap did you have in mind? They can't hold as much energy per unit volume as batteries.

whatever super cap would fit the size parameters. I thought the whole idea about supercaps. is to be stronger/ longer than a regular battery...?.. no?
 

Thread Starter

devotiouswarrior

Joined Dec 15, 2016
8
No.

If that were the case, we'd all be walking around with supercaps in our pockets instead of explosive Li batteries.
well,.. most ppl are so afraid of change we still used 1950's teaching styles and techniques in our basic elementary education. not to mention MOST of the driving laws are from the 1950's to 1970's,... and i'm POSITIVE cars have surpassed those safety parameters from that era.

well ok,.. flip the script,.... in that case may be i'm asking the wrong question.
what kind of metal or wire, can be used as an element, repeatedly and will get red hot, for only 1-2 seconds,... off of 2 or 4, 3V button cells?
 
Last edited:

AlbertHall

Joined Jun 4, 2014
10,412
You could also possibly use a spark as used in cigarette lighters. An empty gas lighter could be used to generate a spark, it would be small and essentially inexhaustible.

A full lighter would generate a flame to ignite the fuse, be long lasting and small and easily and quickly rechargeable.
 

Alec_t

Joined Sep 17, 2013
11,651
what kind of metal or wire, can be used as an element, repeatedly and will get red hot, for only 1-2 seconds,... off of 2 or 4, 3V button cells?
Regardless of the metal type and properties you are going to need about 5W for those 1-2 secs (based on the glow plug data). Button cells can't provide that power safely (if at all). Here's some safety data for the ubiquitous CR2032 :-
CR2032data.PNG
 

Thread Starter

devotiouswarrior

Joined Dec 15, 2016
8
You could also possibly use a spark as used in cigarette lighters. An empty gas lighter could be used to generate a spark, it would be small and essentially inexhaustible.

A full lighter would generate a flame to ignite the fuse, be long lasting and small and easily and quickly rechargeable.
thnx for thinking out side of the box albert hall, but I tried the "spark"
generated cigarette lighter approach. not enough heat to ignite the fuse and so far noting small enough to house the gas (fule tank) to get lit from said "spark" and then ignite the fuse.
btu pleas keep throwing thoughts out there,.. brainstorming works wonders.

thnx again and i'll be reading the wiki sent.
peace
 

bulrush

Joined Jan 1, 2017
30
Bigclive did some "fun" experiments where he blew up some 1/4 watt resistors using 220vac. They burst into flame and burned out. You might also try nichrome wire (used as heating elements in toasters, heaters you put on the floor, etc). I have not used it so I don't know at what voltages it will get hot. But you can buy nichrome on Ebay and Amazon I'm sure.

> element research has brought me to vape pens and most of them use a 4.5 v to heat a variety of easily purchased/ replaced elements

Yeah, but is the 4.5vdc actually what is used to light the element, or does the vape pen boost the voltage further?
 

AlbertHall

Joined Jun 4, 2014
10,412
Yeah, but is the 4.5vdc actually what is used to light the element, or does the vape pen boost the voltage further?
I very much doubt that they would boost the voltage as this would mean a longer and/or thinner (and more delicate) wire was needed and making this heating element very small is desirable let alone the extra cost of boosting the voltage.
 

Thread Starter

devotiouswarrior

Joined Dec 15, 2016
8
Is this too big?
wow, thnx albertHall . didn't find anything like that in my searches. (damn the google search bubble) it's small enough, but with the heat element there's a definite "off" and in the old school style this lighter you found is in, then there's a flame to think about.
witch could most undoubtedly work,.. but i'm gonna have to think on that.
many thnx again though,.... great idea for sure.
 

Thread Starter

devotiouswarrior

Joined Dec 15, 2016
8
hey again, if your still following this thread,.. this what I've come across in searching rechargeable batteries and caps. (turned into supercaps/ ultracaps and pseudocaps)
and so far :

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/battery-charger-180mah-3-7v-rechargeable_60432565124.html
for the smallest 3.7v rechargeable
and
http://www.nesscap.com/product/pseudo.jsp
for the pseudocaps details.

as well after playing around with a few simple prototypes the mounting dimensions have changed, it's basic circumference, no larger than 4-4.25cm and thickness 2-2.5cm.
and really, if one charge is equal to one discharge,.. that's fine too. this is a stage prop and needs to be reliable for one ignition at a time. there's ample time between shows to recharge. (one of the reasons I started looking a all types of capacitors, their quick charge times and one full discharge,.. if this is strong enough to light a filament for 1-2 seconds @ red hot then that's exactly what i'm trying to build.)

thnx again for all your time and efforts
peace
devo
 
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