My friend Oxbo,
Sorry, but I'm really getting limited in the amount of time that I can spend on the board. I simply don't have the time or energy to double-check every step of your project anymore.

You know by now how to figure out voltage drops across LEDs and the necessary resistors for the displays.

The concurrent driving of two very different displays is going to be rather a can of worms though, I'm afraid. You'll need to use drivers for each.

In the meantime, do the best you can with schematics, etc... and re-post sometime late Friday or early Saturday, and I'll re-visit it then.

 

If I had good sense I'd pass this up; I would consider using a bunch of wire[ 9 pr telephone cable] and connect console 7 segs. to buffers on the big board to ensure all data was same at both locations.

 

10-4 guys;
I had begun to think that I might be becoming a pest.
What I need to do is just put the thing to a test to find out if that'll work or not, etc..
Tx's so very much for so very much help....
Oxbo

 

Oxbo,
Didn't you mention in the other thread that your LARGE displays are common anode, where the small displays are common cathode? If so, DON'T connect them up yet, or you'll risk blowing the LED displays. The large ones will be OK at up to around 18V reverse, but the small ones will fry at about 5v reverse.

If so, you will need a different interface than what's supplied by the 40110 IC's. It's not going to be a big deal; some ULN2003's, ULN2803's, ULN2004's or ULN2804's will take care of it.

Note that you will need 12v to supply the large LEDs, while you can use 5v for the small LEDs. It will be easier if you can use the same Vdd for both circuits though; otherwise you will need a "level translator circuit" for the clock pulses.

This is going to be a slowly evolving thread; LOST is on tonight, and I'm watching it!!!

 

Well Hey !
There's the problem right there !
I don't watch LOST !
Just kidin.
I have four large LEDs that are common cathode, and have been doing the circuitry for the "teams scores" of which, two will be used for one team (Home) and two will be used for the other team (Away).
I have four more large LEDs back-ordered.
When you suggested I check the "Kit" as to what it used, I discovered it uses common anode, and, I put in a call to Kingbright and had them changed to common anode, they should be arriving any day.
So, I think everything is good.
Like I say, haven't even gotten to the "countdown clock" yet.
Am in the process of dry-transfering the circuitry onto copper boards today, looks like it's going to be a loooong process.
I happened to choose 5V to initially run the little LEDs the other day just out of being cautious (even though it really didn't make a difference, if they're going to fry, they'll fry, etc).
Have since replaced the resistors and applied 12V and they work well.
Let me know when you'd like to go fishin........
Oxbo

 

Thanx; fishin'll have to be on some weekend in the future. Kind of tied up at the moment.

 

It's Friday !!!
Sarge/Bernard;
I have gotten the 556 circuitry laid out on the copper board, but, have some extra room.
Thought I could also include the "Buffering" circuitry on the board too.
Have drawn up a buffering scheme and would like to submit it for your analysis.
Don't feel rushed, I'm just getting this posted and out of the way, so I can go on to another board, but, have to wait to see if the "buffering scheme is what I need.
Rather than have two up/dwn buttons for each team (=four buttons+extra 556 circuitry), have decided to just use one DPDT switch to switch between the teams and use just one "up" button and one "dwn" button.
The ULN2004A is there to provide enough power to span the ten foot of cable, etc.
Have a nice day,
Oxbo

 

What did I say about leaving CMOS INPUTS floating?

 

This schematic is strictly for signal routing.
Trying to keep it simple.
All unused cmos inputs will certainly be grounded.
I just want to know if this satisfies the requirements for the buffering.
Only argument I have is the DPDT switch.
I would think it wouldn't need a de-bounce circuit as the only time it will be switched is when there is no signal coming through, etc........

 

Thing is, the inputs to one counter or the other WILL be left floating when the switch is flipped to activate the other counter.

So, you must tie both counter inputs to Vdd or GND using 10k to 100k resistors to keep them from floating.

 

Hmmmm !
Will have to take it to the breadboard.
OK, tx's I'm done for awhile........
(other than that, it looks good ?)
(The ULN2004A is OK ?)

 

Attached is the circuit I looked at to figure my setup with.
There is a resistor attached to the "up" count line to ground where signal comes in.
Best I can make it out, looks like a-> $3K <-, don't understand that
"$ " symbol so I made it 3K and seems to work fine. Don't understand why the "Down" count line doesn't have one, nor any of the other chips on down the line. But, that's the setup I have running on the breadboard, and it works fine.
However, I just want to know if the "OR" chips and the ULN2004A are correctly used for the purpose of buffering.
Now, in the next attached pic, of my schematic, I've circled the resistor in green,, in this pic I have run output of 556 directly to both boards, but, as you stated, the outputs need to be buffered, so, I am re-doing the drawing with this "OR" gate/ULN2004A buffering scheme which will go in there, etc, etc...
Just need to know if my "OR" gate/ULN2004A deal is appropriate.....

 

I hadn't even gotten as far as the ULN2004. I don't know why you would be using that between two CMOS devices, but it won't work as you want it to. The ULN2004 acts like an open-collector inverter. It would need a pull-up resistor on each output to be used as a logic device though.

I don't know why you used the OR gates as buffers; they really aren't needed, as CMOS devices can drive up to 20 other CMOS inputs (if they are not loaded in any other way, that is). I've edited the schematic to show pull-down resistor placement; however I don't know offhand if those wires are normally high or normally low when the buttons aren't pressed. If they are normally high, then the resistors (10k to 100k) need to be connected to Vdd instead of ground.

Are you now powering the whole circuit from 12v, or are you powering the small display side with 5v and the large display side with 12v? Trying to change voltage levels will mean that you will need a logic level translator; it would be much easier to have everything run from 12v.

 

On the 40110, you don't show some input pins connected.
Pin 6, Latch Enable, must be held low always. Wire to ground.
Pin 4, Toggle Enable\, must be held low always. Wire to ground.
Pin 5, Reset, must be held low for normal count, pulled high to reset.
Wire all Reset pins (5) together, and connect them all to ground with a single 10k resistor. Connect a small (100nF to 1uF) capacitor across the RESET switch so that all of the counters will be automatically reset when power is applied. One side of the normally-open RESET switch is connected to Vdd, the other side to all pin 5's.

If you are using a normally-closed RESET switch, then instead wire it between all pin 5's and ground, and use a 10k pullup resistor to Vdd on the pin 5 side of the switch. In this case, you can't easily use a capacitor for automatic reset on power-up.

In the UP or Down Counter schematic, the reset switch will not work as shown.

 

In the schematic you posted on the right, you have the borrow and carry outputs (pins 11, 10) tied to ground on the lower 40110. This is not good!

Perhaps I wasn't clear before, so I'll take the blame (I'm cool like that )

Let me re-state:
ALL UNUSED CMOS INPUTS must be connected to either GROUND (Vss) or Vdd, either directly (hard-wired) or via resistors. Unused OUTPUTS do not have to be connected to anything; hard-wiring OUTPUTS directly to Vdd or ground may destroy the device(s).

I see that resistor you've added (R4) circled in green. Why is it 3k? CMOS pull-down resistors should be 10k to perhaps 100k.

SW4, your Reset switch; it would be more simple to use a N.O. pushbutton switch from the common pin 5's to +12v (Vdd), with a 10k pull-down resistor connected from the wired-together pin 5's to ground.

 

Tx's Sarge;
Just got back from fishing, am dog tired.
Will get back to thread tomorrow sometime, am going to bed now, etc........
Oxbo

 

Just as well; some of my comments no longer apply. My comments directly below your latest schematic posts refer to the prior schematic post. Didja get that?

However, the rest of it applies to your latest schematic; never tie a CMOS OUTPUT directly to Vdd or Vss; you'll fry the IC.

 

Sarge;
I submitted a pic of circuit where I had output of 556 going to both the console and big board circuits (As is shown in the pic with the green around the resistor).
You said I needed to "Buffer" the output of the 556, that, ya can't just feed it to two entirely different setups. So I came up with this buffering scheme.
Hey, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just struggling to make my kid a scoreboard.
Now ya say ya don't know why I'm using OR gates and a ULN2004A.
Well, I used them to "Buffer" the output of the 556 to two entirely different circuits.
Why'd I use a 3K resistor ? As i said in the post,( look at the pic of the circuit using the CD40010B's that I copied). The guy there used a resistor and best I can make out it says $3K, which I don't understand, so, I tried a 3K and it worked. Why do I have to type all this info twice, just read the post ! It's all self explanatory !
Why'd I tie pins 10 and 11 to ground ? Because they're "Inputs" and you said tie all inputs to either VCC or Gnd, that's why pins 10 & 11 are tied together and grounded. I'd choose to GND a pin as opposed to to putting it high.
Yes, yes, yes, it's ALL running on 12V, as I stated in a post above, I replaced the resistors to the small LEDs and they work well with 12V.
You don't drink do ya ????????

 

OK, my bad;
Pins 10/11 need to be left open = not inputs.....

 

Sarge;
I submitted a pic of circuit where I had output of 556 going to both the console and big board circuits (As is shown in the pic with the green around the resistor).
You said I needed to "Buffer" the output of the 556, that, ya can't just feed it to two entirely different setups. So I came up with this buffering scheme.

OK, that's not quite what I said. I said that if you were going to run the small display board on 5v, and the large display board on 12v, then you would need a level translator between the two. You see, logic that's running on a Vdd of 5v won't "talk" to logic that's running on 12v; a 5v "high" would be indeterminate (not valid) to logic running on 12v. If you're running everything using the same Vdd of 12v, you don't need a level translator.

Or are you running one on 5v and the other on 12v?

Hey, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just struggling to make my kid a scoreboard.

I know, and I'm struggling to help ya.

Now ya say ya don't know why I'm using OR gates and a ULN2004A.
Well, I used them to "Buffer" the output of the 556 to two entirely different circuits.

OK, I see. Something you should know about the 555 is that it's capable of sourcing or sinking many times the current that any 4000 series CMOS logic IC can. If Vcc is 15v, the 555 can source or sink 200mA. It's less at lower Vcc values, but it's still a heck of a lot compared to the 4000 series.

Why'd I use a 3K resistor ? As i said in the post,( look at the pic of the circuit using the CD40010B's that I copied). The guy there used a resistor and best I can make out it says $3K, which I don't understand, so, I tried a 3K and it worked. Why do I have to type all this info twice, just read the post ! It's all self explanatory !

LOL! OK. A standard value for 4000 series CMOS logic pull-ups and pull-downs is 10k Ohms. If you use lower resistance, the logic IC's have to supply lots more current. If your Vdd is 12v, your logic output will have to supply 4mA current to get 12v across a 3k resistor. If you use a 10k resistor instead, the logic output would only have to supply 1.2mA to get 12v.

Why'd I tie pins 10 and 11 to ground ? Because they're "Inputs" and you said tie all inputs to either VCC or Gnd, that's why pins 10 & 11 are tied together and grounded. I'd choose to GND a pin as opposed to to putting it high.

Nope! Pin 10 is Carry, and pin 11 is Borrow; they are OUTPUTS! If you're cascading to another 40110, the Carry gets connected to the next IC's Clock Up input (pin 9), and the Borrow gets connected to the Clock Down input (pin 7). If you tied either Carry or Borrow directly to ground or Vdd, you will cause problems! If you've powered the circuit up with those pins grounded, it's very likely that you have fried that IC already.

Yes, yes, yes, it's ALL running on 12V, as I stated in a post above, I replaced the resistors to the small LEDs and they work well with 12V.
You don't drink do ya ????????

OK, since you're running on all 12v, you don't need to worry about a logic level translator or buffering or any of that stuff. Keep in mind, it's been several days since I've looked at this, and I'm also helping several other folks with projects, along with my own projects. Not hard to get things confused!