Reprogramming a bread machine

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by RS-232D, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. RS-232D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 1, 2012
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    Hello, I have a bread machine that works perfectly (Please resist the 'if it is'nt broke don't fix it. reply.) however, it does not have the capability to do what I want it to do evidently. I have a little knowledge, very little compared to many of you I am sure, in electronics, decent knowledge in computers, including assembly lang, and a few others. I know assembly won;t help me here more than likely, but to allow you to know I am semi comfortable with hex code, memory manipulation and addressing/and slightly how logic works internally, but not so much in signal/chip controlling, but I can learn hopefully.
    anyways, My bread machine does not allow me to just put some pre-made dough in it, then it will let it rise, then bake it. I have to put all the ingredients in it, then let it mix and then knead and then rise and then bake them, and it takes hours to make bread, when in reality, the bake time should only take a fraction of that time, and I have no desire to wait.
    My thought is, that internally there obviously is a controller circuit, and that circuit clearly has 'routines' in it that take the machine through it's programmed path....ie timing routine that delays so many hours, before handing the logic over to the knead/paddle moving cycle, which then goes through a delay, then paddles some more, delays some more for rising, then controls the heating element, probably through timing of off and on, or controlled by a thermal coupler for a certain amount of time/etc....
    My question is this...is there a way for me to change that and add what I want into it? actually I know there is a way...someone built it in the first place, someone can rebuild it in the second place, surely, but obviously I do not know how the best way to go about doing it is.
    My thoughts on doing it, are probably infantile and ignorant...but I am wondering if I can do something like, remove the main chip, (I think it is the one on the left that has p12-319 sd04 fk84 9832h on it) somehow dump whatever is on it, modify the coding and burn it onto another chip to duplicate it, put in a DIL socket and be on my merry way, or am I just to ignorant to know better? and of course, I've done none of this at all before so would more then likely be asking how if you said yes. the other two chips have 74hc164ap 9818h on them....I looked them up and am taking them to be shift registers, either for only the timing, or displaying which lights/modes are operating at the moment, so I am thinking I don't have to mess with those? at least not in removing them or changing them? here is a picture of the circuit board. it attaches to another board in the machine, but I am thinking that is mostly the power controller/etc.
    anyways I know it's a weird project....but I'm sure many here have done weirder, and no doubt cooler ones. Thanks in advance, for helping me get a clue.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    Yikes! You think you could break that into paragraphs, use some punctuation and summarize your question?

    That mess is nearly impossible to read.


    What you could have is a custom chip making it nearly impossible to reprogram.
     
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  3. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    When you get done learning how to select and program a chip for that, do one for my new clothes washer, Kenmore 110.20022013. I want to be able to set how long it will agitate, set which agitate speed it will use, see what it's doing, be able to stop it any time I want, do two wash cycles without spinning before refilling, and select the spin speed and duration. Right now, it works just like a laundromat washer except there is no window to look into and the lid locks itself. You push the start button and grab your ankles because it's going to have its way and there's nothing you can do about it, or even see what it's doing.

    Doncha just love the way microcontrollers are used in todays appliances? Some nerd in China decides how to make your bread, wash my clothes, and makes sure we don't have any choice but to do it his (or her) way. Fortunately, being so old that I resent this condition also means I will probably die before it gets much worse.

    Thank you for your patience.
     
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  4. RS-232D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 1, 2012
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    I'll try, to post it in a more readable format for others, but I just asked how to yesterday on a "speak proper and correct english for people who only know how to read text book perfect english" forum, and so far all I got was smart replies asking if I could instead learn how to reprogram my bread maker....go figure.... When you say what I could have is a custom chip making it impossible to reprogram, does that mean it is a lost cause, or simply, I would need to replace the chip with another that I did reprogram?

    Come on guys....I know the issues with doing what I want to do, or not being able to do it. (Ok, I don't know the issues, I'm depending on you folks to tell me them really.) I know I do not know how to accomplish it myself which is why I am here, obviously. It is a bread maker. it has a heating element, a power supply and a controller. and that is really the crux of it, isn't it? The chinese guy did it. It 'can' be done, because it HAS been done. I am not asking for a hardware change to happen, to my knowledge, to put a view window in my mashing machine where there wasn't one already (Although 1: my bread maker does already have one in it actually, and 2: if you want to put on in your washing machine, that could be done also.) I am not asking it to do anything majorly outlandish even. merely really to skip the knead cycle, and go right to the raise then into the bake cycle, I would guess.) am I really asking something impossible? I know it isn't practical already. I view having to find probably a matching chip (do not know how I would find one yet.) a chip dumper/reader probably, and getting a correct burner also.....way more than a bread maker is worth, except me doing it, teaches me along the way and well...it is cool, ad I actually 'can' make it do all sorts of things, if I want. I imagine, I will really be making a whole controller....except, since this one is pretty much already made, except the chip and control part of it, which I hope to copy theirs for a clue, so why not use it to save me a lot of work? once more am I really that far off on a impossible mission here?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  5. #12

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    If you read between the lines in my first post, you will see that a person with 40 years experience in electronics and thousands of posts on this forum doesn't know how to do it. Still, there are people here that are more modern, more knowledgable, and even smarter in general than I am.

    Wait until tomorrow and see if somebody else answers. We have participants all over the planet and some of them are asleep right now.
     
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  6. atferrari

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 6, 2004
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    I agree with Spinnaker. Reading such a mass of text is horrible. I gave up on the first third. Not for me. Thanks.
     
  7. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    Another mess!

    BREAK YOUR MESSAGE UP INTO PARAGRAPHS.

    No more than 4 or 5 lines per paragraph. Forget about all the useless information about the "Chinese guy" and all the other nonsense and post only pertinent information and questions.

    Have you never posted on a forum before?

    It's doubtful that you can do what you want to do anyway. What you might be able to do is throw out the control board and just design your own. Use the rest for your own custom bread maker.
     
  8. wayneh

    Expert

    Sep 9, 2010
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    Why do you need the machine at all? It was designed specifically to do the steps that you want to omit. Just use a timed oven.
     
  9. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    I just don't understand it. Why do people make it so hard for good folks like yourself to help them?

    OP,

    You really missed out because atferrari is one of the more knowledgeable people on the forum.
     
  10. bug13

    Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2012
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    mmmm.... very interesting idea, I really want to know who can hack this machine, but here is my thought, get a universal eeprom reader or something, read the code and analyse it , since you are comfortable with assembly

    (PS:I don't claim that I know how to hack it, nor did I know how, it's just what I would do if I was hacking it)

    happy hacking :)
     
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  11. RS-232D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 1, 2012
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    I really missed out? ya...perhaps I did, but hardly any worse off then I was prior to coming to the forum. look....you act as if it was my intent to somehow affront you or him with me not evidently abiding by the laws of english you demand.....it wasn't. what do you want exactly for me to make it easier for you to help me? you already stated you do not know how to do what I want. Now him, whatever...but if you cannot help me, why you even still involved, except as some sort of heckler?

    And wayneh, you haven't just done something to do it, learn and explore? Why, is because I want to, it would allow me to set it and forget it, it would also teach me how to do many other things I may want to try doing later. I only gave the instances of what I want to do, to give something for others to relate to, trust me, my imagination is not nearly so limited,but what I want the machine to do is regardless of what I want to learn how to do.
     
  12. RS-232D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 1, 2012
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    New Post for those who are stuck on short descriptions:

    I have a bread maker that I wish to program. It has the above circuit board in the first post. is there a way to replace the logic chip that is in it to simply use its already setup controller, to 1) dump the chip info and copy it. 2)reload with it's own logic and also with my newer routines.
    What would be a good way to go about this? how can I find a replacement chip to match the one that is in it? and how can I go about reprogramming it, dumping the info from the other chip, and reburning the new replacement? The one on the left has : p12-319 sd04 fk84 9832h the two on the right have 74hc164ap 9818h. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  13. bug13

    Well-Known Member

    Feb 13, 2012
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    hello RS-232D,

    It looks like my reply has offended or given you a wrong impression in someway, however, my intention was good, to give you an idea to start with, or maybe my idea can lead you to something, or maybe not.

    anyway, please ignore my reply if it sent out a wrong message.

    you have a good day :)
     
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  14. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    Yeah you are sure going to get a lot of help with an attitude like that.

    No laws of english. It is called getting to the point and post in a manner that others can help you. There are plenty of people in this forum that have far worse English skills than you that know how to put across their idea even if they don't have a command for the language.


    We already gave you an opinion. It is simply not viable to do it the way you want to do it. I already gave you a viable solution. If you want to continue with that idea then there are people around here that might be able to help.

    If you want to continue down the road of trying to modify the existing board then you are going to be pretty much on your own. Most of those chips on that board will be more than likely custom chips and there is no way to modify them. But I already told you that and if you didn't waste time on the story about the Chinese and and whatever else you would have had time to read what people have suggested.
     
  15. RS-232D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 1, 2012
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    No bug, sorry if I made it sound like I was addressing you when I said that. You actually have a great enthusiasm, I think. You did give a good response, and it was appreciated. thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  16. RS-232D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 1, 2012
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    talk about someone not reading....I replied to what you said, and asked " When you say what I could have is a custom chip making it impossible to reprogram, does that mean it is a lost cause, or simply, I would need to replace the chip with another that I did reprogram?" so, it is your position that it is impossible, and therefor I should just make a whole new controller. thanks. appreciate your help. Now, I'd like to hear if anyone else may think otherwise, more along the lines of what I am trying to do, but thanks once again. If I decide to make a new controller, perhaps I'll repost on ways to go about it and you can help.
     
  17. wayneh

    Expert

    Sep 9, 2010
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    That's fine, and a perfectly valid reason for spending time on this project. But it helps folks here to understand why you want to do something. Some folks just want to make the bread, others want to rewire the machine. Some want to save money and some want to tinker, whatever the cost. The help they need is very different.

    Many of the initial project posts in this forum are unclear on what the goals are and it takes a few posts back and forth to sort out what the motivations are.

    IMHO, you'd get farther faster if you built your own controller instead of trying to work around the current one. The computer in my Keurig coffee machine quit the other day. I considered just using a different controller to control all the various pumps and valves, which are al fine. But then the price of a new one didn't look so bad.
     
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  18. Meixner

    Member

    Sep 26, 2011
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    If it's a custom chip it's a lost cause. Custom means it is manufactured only for the maker of the bread machine and there is no way you can buy one. That p12 139 number you posted is not a standard part number so it is probably a custom chip.
     
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  19. Dodgydave

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jun 22, 2012
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    In short NO.

    the only way is to trace out the circuit, find out the inputs and outputs from the "P12 "chip, and use a pic with your own programme.
     
  20. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
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    Yes I agree. The simplest way is to "reverse engineer" the functions of the controller board. And then replace it with your own controller board. In this case it could be doable(I do not say will be doable). But it may take both a lot of work and some time.
     
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