rectifier with 220V ac to 200V dc ?

h.d

Joined Oct 22, 2007
150
hi
i want to ask if we can get 200V dc output by rectifier circuit
with 220V ac (50Hz)input?
sure its full wave,and i need it uncontrolled rectifier.

beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,808
Without some regulation, you can't rectify Ac and come out with a lower DC voltage. If you use capacitor filters, the output voltage is about 1.4 times the AC input.

h.d

Joined Oct 22, 2007
150
Without some regulation, you can't rectify Ac and come out with a lower DC voltage. If you use capacitor filters, the output voltage is about 1.4 times the AC input.
you mean that i can get output dc more than the ac-input?how can i use the capacitor filter to do that?
sure threr are regulation.

cheddy

Joined Oct 19, 2007
87
He meant to say that DC is ~.707 times the AC
AC is ~1.4 times the DC

h.d

Joined Oct 22, 2007
150
He meant to say that DC is ~.707 times the AC
AC is ~1.4 times the DC
in that the maximum dc-output is
220*0.707=155.5V
?

eeboy

Joined Sep 27, 2007
90
No, he was correct. The rectified DC output is 1.4 times the AC input. 220 is the RMS voltage and is .707 * the peak.

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
12,304
With a large capacitor to hold the peaK voltage until the next peak, the estimate of 1.4 times the RMS voltage is correct. The DC output will be in the neighborhood of 308 Volts. Dropping that to 200 volts without dissipating a ton of power will be a challenge. Good Luck.

It might be easier to get a 220 to 140 transformer then the rectified and filtered voltage will be in the neighborhood of 200 VDC

SgtWookie

Joined Jul 17, 2007
22,201
What are you planning on powering with it? Tube plates?
What will your minimum, maximum, and average expected current be?

Running off the mains is risky business. When there are failures, the operator can be exposed to the power of the mains. I say when, because sooner or later, something will break.

A transformer serves not only to isolate from the power mains, but to better match the voltage you need while limiting the maximum current.

If the amount of current you need is small, you might consider using a moderate voltage transformer, and then voltage doubler/tripler/quadrupler circuit(s) to reach the voltage you need.

When you're working with high voltage, even small currents can kill you. Be careful.

bloguetronica

Joined Apr 27, 2007
1,359
you mean that i can get output dc more than the ac-input?how can i use the capacitor filter to do that?
sure threr are regulation.
The 220VAC is the RMS value of the grid voltage. The peak value is 1.414 times greater (Vpeak = sqrt (2) x Vrms) and that is the voltage of the resulting rectified current.

He meant to say that DC is ~.707 times the AC
AC is ~1.4 times the DC
No. Its the opposite.

h.d

Joined Oct 22, 2007
150
What are you planning on powering with it? Tube plates?
What will your minimum, maximum, and average expected current be?

Running off the mains is risky business. When there are failures, the operator can be exposed to the power of the mains. I say when, because sooner or later, something will break.

A transformer serves not only to isolate from the power mains, but to better match the voltage you need while limiting the maximum current.

If the amount of current you need is small, you might consider using a moderate voltage transformer, and then voltage doubler/tripler/quadrupler circuit(s) to reach the voltage you need.

When you're working with high voltage, even small currents can kill you. Be careful.

i need it as power supply for dc-motor(Vt=200V,6A,2hp)
and the average current is 6A,maximum is 7A

h.d

Joined Oct 22, 2007
150
With a large capacitor to hold the peaK voltage until the next peak, the estimate of 1.4 times the RMS voltage is correct. The DC output will be in the neighborhood of 308 Volts. Dropping that to 200 volts without dissipating a ton of power will be a challenge. Good Luck.

It might be easier to get a 220 to 140 transformer then the rectified and filtered voltage will be in the neighborhood of 200 VDC
i will try it simulation.

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
12,304
At those power levels you won't be wanting to regulate 308 VDC down to 200 VDC.
Rich (BB code):
108 Volts x 7 A = 756 Watts.
Thats about a horsepower worth of wasteed heat. Get thee a transformer and be done with it.

h.d

Joined Oct 22, 2007
150
Hi
Am back again
Thats the model which I done
The input voltage is 220 Vac 60 Hz
The output voltage is 213 Vdc
But I know that the output voltage and input acts with the following relation
Vdc=2^0.5*Vac
I dont know if I take the output correctly
And what is the output which I get is it rms or dc or what????
If any one can help me.
And thanks.

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SgtWookie

Joined Jul 17, 2007
22,201
Your output is DC with ripple. You can reduce the ripple by increasing the size of the filter capacitor, but "real world" capacitors for those kinds of voltages are going to be quite large and expen\$ive. However, since your load is inductive, some ripple probably won't matter that much.

jamers

Joined Jan 24, 2008
12
A sine wave is measured by the rms voltage. Which is the the Peak-Peakvoltage divided by the square root of 2.

So to get a 200V dc output, you first have to convert your ac voltage to an ac voltage of 141.42VAC, and then when you rectify it you will get a dc voltage of 200V.

An example of this we can use is your AC wall voltage of 115VAC.
The RMS value is 115VAC, however if i were to get P-P voltage it would be 163V.

If you dont want to use a transformer you have to rectify your AC voltage using a SCR bridge, but then you need to worry about adjusting your triggering point to capture exactly the right amount of the ac wave.

scubasteve_911

Joined Dec 27, 2007
1,202
h.d.,

Your simulation is quite frightening of what can happen when you don't understand the problem accurately. As most people have mentioned, AC outputs are specified as RMS. You are taking them as peak values! Be careful with all of that voltage and power, safety is a priority.

You should use a transformer to do this, since it is straightforward and safe to do. It is possible to power a high voltage H-bridge, then just PWM the input. This IC is a bit under-rated current-wise, but it might be a good starting point. It is meant for 3-phase operation, but it will be happy with only two half bridges in use.

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irams06up60a.pdf

Steve

h.d

Joined Oct 22, 2007
150
h.d.,

Your simulation is quite frightening of what can happen when you don't understand the problem accurately. As most people have mentioned, AC outputs are specified as RMS. You are taking them as peak values! Be careful with all of that voltage and power, safety is a priority.

You should use a transformer to do this, since it is straightforward and safe to do. It is possible to power a high voltage H-bridge, then just PWM the input. This IC is a bit under-rated current-wise, but it might be a good starting point. It is meant for 3-phase operation, but it will be happy with only two half bridges in use.

http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irams06up60a.pdf

Steve
for safety i will use circuit braker before the rectifier
and after the output of rectifier would use MOSFET with PWM controlling
is it good?

h.d

Joined Oct 22, 2007
150
A sine wave is measured by the rms voltage. Which is the the Peak-Peakvoltage divided by the square root of 2.

So to get a 200V dc output, you first have to convert your ac voltage to an ac voltage of 141.42VAC, and then when you rectify it you will get a dc voltage of 200V.

An example of this we can use is your AC wall voltage of 115VAC.
The RMS value is 115VAC, however if i were to get P-P voltage it would be 163V.

If you dont want to use a transformer you have to rectify your AC voltage using a SCR bridge, but then you need to worry about adjusting your triggering point to capture exactly the right amount of the ac wave.
my project is to drive dc motor by PWM so i will use MOSFET in the output of rectifier as a chopper class A
the motor is 220Vdc so i will limit the duety cycle in 70%.
i think thats good , isnt it?

SgtWookie

Joined Jul 17, 2007
22,201
In your model, it appears that you are using an N-channel MOSFET on the high side of your load. You would normally have it between the load and ground. Otherwise, your gate control voltage would have to have a 220v swing!

Also, your load doesn't have any reverse EMF protection, such as a diode and a capacitor; without it you'll wind up with extremely high voltages across your MOSFET, destroying it. You'll need a diode capable of carrying a fairly large amount of current. I also suggest paralleling the diode with a small capacitor (say 0.1uF) with at least 300V rating. Diodes can take some time to turn on and off; the capacitor will absorb the peak voltage until the diode begins to conduct.

thingmaker3

Joined May 16, 2005
5,073
for safety i will use circuit braker before the rectifier
and after the output of rectifier would use MOSFET with PWM controlling
is it good?
MOSFETs can and do short when they fail. This would subject your motor to 150% of rated voltage. (225% of rated power.) A standard breaker might not trip quickly enough to protect your motor. A fuse or breaker capable of tripping quickly enough might also open during motor start-up.

A transformer would solve all of this.