Thanks, I'm afraid if you don't build it step by step and understand the intended function of each part, the project may not work as intended.

It's not something I could simulate or test from here.

If timers check out, then it's on to triggering timers from encoder. I have not been able to do this as my timers are 120vac.

It would be helpful to find a clock motor to duct tape to encoder. I played around counting pulses with hand rotation, but it's hopeless, even at 100 P/R.

 

I'll see if I can find an old clock. Would have to connect to the minute hand shaft, correct?

Do I have the wiring for the encoder right?

 

Found my 12v car jump box.

Both timer modes work exactly as you describe. I have I for interval and D for ON/OFF delay.

So, is the schematic you posted the way the two timers and encoder should be connected?

My encoder has 4 wires. I'm guessing the VCC is +, the GND is - Yes and the A & B go to 2 and 6 on the first timer. No, Lets call pin two and - ground. 2 is already connected to timer and encoder. (ground) So all you need is A or B connected to timer "start" Is that pin 6 on yours?

The contacts on the first timer switch 2 & 6 on the second timer, Yes and the contacts on the second timer are the alarm circuit. Yes again

Will I need to put a momentary switch in this circuit somewhere to jump start everything? Or will the initial power on get things going?
I'll have to get back to you on that, I don't think so. I'm leaving for the gym and have other things on my mind.
I'm back..........The n.c. contact of relay 1 triggers relay 2 off of "alarm" for "time". On start-up.
Just as if you held pin 2 and pin 6 of timer 2 connected on start-up.

Back in an hour.....................

I'm working on an idea that will use both A and B channels.
I am sooo glad timers work as described., as I worry about my communication skills. Not your ability.

 

I'll see if I can find an old clock. Would have to connect to the minute hand shaft, correct?

Do I have the wiring for the encoder right? NO

One more before I leave.

Good for a fast test! Later the hour hand would be a more suitable test for real world speed.

A and B are two outputs that do the same thing. One is delayed.

The open collector (should handle the 12vdc) output essentially shorts the A or B output to ground for half a cycle. In other words connects pin 6 and 2 on the timer. Just as you simulated. (I hope, haven't seen specs)

 

Okay, one of they goes to pin 6 and the other one isn't used at this point, unless you come up with the idea you were working on.

I played with hooking the timers up per the schematic, and could get the second one to reset by pulsing pin 6 (for the interval time) with a wire. If I waited the length of the delay setting on the second timer without resetting the first timer, then the output would turn off. I believe that is the expected results.

It is good that you are using the off state as the alarm, so if the timers lose power for any reason, the contacts will alarm.

I will await your play for the encoder.

 

Sounds right to me.

You might want to connect a tail light bulb or indicator to the system.

If you are like me it's easy to get logic backwards. Forgetting what it alarm and what is normal running.

All you should need is 12volts to encoder and one channel wire to pin 6.
The channel wire will connect internally to ground one each pulse.

If you set the #1 timer low enough (lower than pulse period) you can rotate encoder by hand to keep timer #2 reset.

I believe you can set these timers down to 100ms, so that should let pulses thru to alarm timer.

If you then increase #1 time gradually, you will find the point that pulses are ignored.

By the way, I'm not sure this was discussed. After alarm, any movement will reset system.
No problem to make it latch or even add another timer function.

 

Okay, one of they goes to pin 6 and the other one isn't used at this point, unless you come up with the idea you were working on.

I played with hooking the timers up per the schematic, and could get the second one to reset by pulsing pin 6 (for the interval time) with a wire. If I waited the length of the delay setting on the second timer without resetting the first timer, then the output would turn off. I believe that is the expected results.

It is good that you are using the off state as the alarm, so if the timers lose power for any reason, the contacts will alarm.

I will await your play for the encoder.

Thanks, believe it or not, these were all things that I considered.
It's nice to know that you agree.

 

Thanks, believe it or not, these were all things that I considered.
It's nice to know that you agree.

That's why you are the expert.

Not latching shouldn't be a problem. This will be connected to a tattle-tale type relay, so once the lack of movement causes the alarm state the tattle-tale will shut the engine down, and the system will stop. This relay is also triggered by the engine safeties, as well as a switch for loss of water pressure to the sprinklers. With the tattle-tale there are no second chances.

Were you going to try and do something with the second encoder channel?

I haven't found a clock yet, to test the times. I'll keep looking.

 

Edit after seeing last post...........
This uses both channels.
See what you think........

Please don't pay too much attention to this.
I want to get it out while I'm still on this project.

In a previous post I show the relation of CH-A to CH-B.

There is a setting on the timer called delay on.
This does not work as I envisioned.

However it can be used (I think) to condition input pulses without regard to encoder speed.

In this mode, "start" sets a latch and "reset" resets the latch. (duh )
The timer setting could be set to anything. Not critical for operation. Just a long enough pulse to reset alarm timer.

The way I see this working is:
The alarm timer will only see pulses that trigger BOTH A and B.

The encoder can stop in any position. Move back and forth any amount short of triggering both A and B, without resetting alarm timer. (edit: Even if stopping near enough to "bump" A after stopping, it would then have to get all the way to B for another pulse output)

First method uses a time setting to sort good from bad pulses.
New method would use actual degree of rotation.

Only experience will tell which is better.

Only one wire difference in wiring, and resetting timer function.

I would be very interested to know which works best. At this point I have no opinion.

 

How are the connections made for this method to work? I need to change the timer type to delay on, but where to I connect the other encoder wire?

 

Okay, thanks.

I'll give that a shot tomorrow.

 

Seem to be going in circles, here.

Was able to interface my 100P encoder to multi-timer.

This seems to work best for me.
Delay-on setting
N.O. contact to timer 2
CH-A to start & gate
CH-B to reset

This only pulses once for CH-A. No more pulses until reset by CH-B

I was able to rotate shaft slightly at any point with no output.

I don't think you mentioned what encoder you have.

edit:
This has become quite a challenge.
Not because of the overall difficulty. But keeping part count low. 3 parts right now. And not using a power supply, PLC, or PCB.

 

Okay, I'll play with that tomorrow.

I bought the last encoder you posted. The one from China with the wheel on it, only I got one from a US seller and it doesn't have the wheel, yet. Probably going to make one. It is a G40B-6-400-2-24. The rest is written in Chinese.

Timers are from factorymation.

 

Looks good. The original I posted was pretty light on info.
Your link states NPN open collector. That's good for what we are doing.

It will be interesting to see if you can test it with hand rotation.

4X more sensitive than the 100 P/R I'm testing.

It should be tamed once the large wheel is on the shaft.

Make a cardboard wheel if needed.
8" or so should allow 50-100 rough marks on the C . That and a pointer will give you some good information on sensitivity.

By the way the last idea, using both ch is directional.
Which should be a good thing. Bounce back won't register.

It uses a very non-standard timer configuration, so I'm not confident that your timer will show the same results.

 

I don't know if it is working the way it is supposed to.

Should I set the timer that had the encoder connected to (A) On Delay? Before it was set to (D) On/Off Delay. When I do this the other timer times out and won't reset.

I'm unsure about how to set the delays. I have the interval one set to 0.5 min and the other one set to 0.3 seconds for testing.

Initially both outputs are off. When I rotate the encoder they both switch to on. The interval timer power light starts flashing indicating it is timing. The power light on the delay timer stays on solid no matter if I rotate the encoder slowly, or quickly, or not at all. After 30 seconds the interval timer output turns off.

I'm not sure what I am doing wrong. Please advise.

Edit: I haven't made a wheel at this point. Maybe that would help.

 

I don't know if it is working the way it is supposed to.

Should I set the timer that had the encoder connected to (A) On Delay? No Before it was set to (D) On/Off Delay. Yes D.. When I do this the other timer times out and won't reset.

I'm unsure about how to set the delays. I have the interval one set to 0.5 min and the other one set to 0.3 seconds for testing. That should be fine.

Initially both outputs are off. When I rotate the encoder they both switch to on. The interval timer power light starts flashing indicating it is timing. The power light on the delay timer stays on solid no matter if I rotate the encoder slowly, or quickly, or not at all. After 30 seconds the interval timer output turns off.

I'm not sure what I am doing wrong. Please advise.

Edit: I haven't made a wheel at this point. Maybe that would help.

We better stick to the settings that you had checked out in post 97 and 98.

Recent posts were untested ideas, to try, after basic system is working.

Set to on-off delay. I may have confused you with the new ideas.
If timer is set to on-delay it won't work, as you explained. Nothing to reset the first timer.

Time can be set to lowest setting. Even "0". At "0" output relay will try to follow encoder, giving you an idea of how sensitive the encoder is.

 

If a divided down count is desired, this works on breadboard. Used with a 600 PPR encoder with division of 128, & 60 min sweep, would reset 15m timer every 12.8 min. Presently have a 2 " wheel mounted. Has good imunity to reverse pulses. Counters can be rearranged for any division desired. 4060 thrown in just as an example of resettable timer. Output pulse about 25 μs.
I cut out a 7 in circle in 1/4 in plywood & attached to a 24 hr timer, works fine at about 45 sec /pulse.
Note: U2 is 4516 rather than 7516, slip of the pen.

 

+1

Op may be gone!

I think you are on the right track using divide by X.

If alarm condition would reset the counter it would be even better at ignoring pulses after it's stuck.

At least in the rare condition of stopping with only a few more pulses needed to reset.

Of course OP prefers industrial controls. I have a similar setup running, using a plug-in preset counter after the encoder. Followed by the 15 minute timer.

 

Somehow I forgot about this thread. I guess I just got busy, and must have unsubscribed somehow.
My friend has started playing with the Arduino now so this may be the way we will be going if we build this project. I appreciate all of the ideas that everyone came up with.