Its the old catch 22.
No experience coz you cant get a job.
No job because you have no experience.

I was in the same situation but swallowed my pride and just took anything that came along. I got a test engineers job but over time I got more experience and became a research and development engineer.

 

I am really ticked off that there are millions of people in this world that genuinely want to go to college but cannot afford to. Yet some folks get their parents to pay their tuition and then they discredit their school as teaching crap and wasted a great opportunity to be useful to society.

Instead of blaming specific people, especially ones who aren't at fault in the first place, why don't you blame the educational system itself? It's the root cause of these problems. There's a serious disconnect between education and schooling today. A hobbyist with many years of experience can be more qualified than a preppy coming out of college for a job, yet in the business world the latter is the only one who even has a chance. Today, education without schooling and schooling without education are both quite possible, yet neither are ever considered.

 

Instead of blaming specific people, especially ones who aren't at fault in the first place, why don't you blame the educational system itself? It's the root cause of these problems. There's a serious disconnect between education and schooling today. A hobbyist with many years of experience can be more qualified than a preppy coming out of college for a job, yet in the business world the latter is the only one who even has a chance. Today, education without schooling and schooling without education are both quite possible, yet neither are ever considered.

Because, as you've just indicated yourself, the educational system -- for all it's myriad faults -- is NOT the root cause. You just said that the BUSINESS world would rather see degrees that don't correlate with skills rather than skills that aren't backed by a degree. Well, what the customer wants....

 

Its the old catch 22.
No experience coz you cant get a job.
No job because you have no experience.

I was in the same situation but swallowed my pride and just took anything that came along. I got a test engineers job but over time I got more experience and became a research and development engineer.

And you can also look for opportunities to volunteer with projects. There was one around here that went for several decades where a group of people took over an old radio telescope and refurbished it little by little as they had the time and money and got it into working order and have actually done some interesting astronomy with it. A lot of people volunteers time and effort on that project and gained a wealth of practical experience with how things work and how to get things to work, working side by side and being mentored by old-time skilled professionals on a more-or-less even footing.

 

Because, as you've just indicated yourself, the educational system -- for all it's myriad faults -- is NOT the root cause. You just said that the BUSINESS world would rather see degrees that don't correlate with skills rather than skills that aren't backed by a degree. Well, what the customer wants....

Good point, but the educational system should also cater to the self-learner, I don't really blame businesses as much because it's a risk vs reward scenario. Reduce the risk by creating institutions where one can gain credentials outside of the traditional college experience. Either free of charge or very cheap. This would also help to drive the cost of colleges down, because they would have to compete with free resources found online. I'm tired of paying tons of money for college only to then be taught with youtube videos and handouts that I've already gone over on my own.

 

I worked for a large aircraft manufacturer. My technical education was a combination of a correspondence and military training. With those, I got a job as a N/C (now CNC) maintenance technician. Later, I advanced to the point that I was responsible for making the hiring decisions for that skill set. I would conduct a technical interview that covered topics such as basic Ohm's Law, series and parallel resistance and capacitance calculations, semiconductor application therory, ladder logic, and many other items. Typical successful candidates came from the technical schools rather than from the colleges. The colleges guys typically could not think their way out of a paper bag whereas the tech school folks could use common sense with the basic theory they had learned to come up with a rational answer. Another thing I always did, even if I had to invent a bogus question, was to take the applicant to a point that they couldn't answer the question. Tech school folks would usually give up and then ask for the answer. College folks would usually try the ol' "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS." After all, they had a piece of paper that declared them to be smart!

 

I worked for a large aircraft manufacturer. My technical education was a combination of a correspondence and military training. With those, I got a job as a N/C (now CNC) maintenance technician. Later, I advanced to the point that I was responsible for making the hiring decisions for that skill set. I would conduct a technical interview that covered topics such as basic Ohm's Law, series and parallel resistance and capacitance calculations, semiconductor application therory, ladder logic, and many other items. Typical successful candidates came from the technical schools rather than from the colleges. The colleges guys typically could not think their way out of a paper bag whereas the tech school folks could use common sense with the basic theory they had learned to come up with a rational answer. Another thing I always did, even if I had to invent a bogus question, was to take the applicant to a point that they couldn't answer the question. Tech school folks would usually give up and then ask for the answer. College folks would usually try the ol' "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS." After all, they had a piece of paper that declared them to be smart!

It seems like you have a serious bias against college students. I hope that doesn't alter your perception when conducting such interviews.
Coming from a purely academic environment without much if any practical experience would be super difficult for anyone. You might easily pass someone up who has great potential.

 

Not really a bias against college students. I hold two BS degrees (not the same kind of BS as referenced in my previous post). I do, however, hold a bias against those that think that simply waving a piece of paper should entitle them to opportunities that they are not prepared for. What I seemed to see in the college graduates at that time was that they had been required to relinquish common sense in order to obtain the degree. Also, they seemed to lack in curiosity. BTW, I received my degrees AFTER I retired in 1996 with 32 years of service, the first ten of which were as a technician.

In all fairness, you are probably correct about the potential of some applicants that I rejected to become excellent engineers. My job was to find folks that had a full understanding of the basic concepts needed to be a successful technician, not a design engineer. Even though the company had training, it was targeted at specific machines and sub-systems. If the employee didn't have a solid understanding of basic electronic concepts, it would have been impossible for them to attain an understanding of the sub-systems they were being taught due to the pace of the training.

 

OP...

I agree with WBahn... whatever went into that 'social skills' comment needs to be addressed. I think by nature many engineers lack some level of 'social skills', you just can't let it be debilitating. You have to be willing to engage and be part of the team. Hell, just the other day I got together with WBahn and a bunch of other folks that enjoy electronics hobbies and learned more in 3 hours than I have at work all year long... just because I was in a different setting and drawing from other peoples experiences.

I'd really encourage you to find a group like this in your area... and just learn from and with other people. I also would suggest reading application notes from different integrated circuit manufactures... there is a wealth of information in those places with more practical information. If you read Jim Williams and Dr. Howard Johnson - those are two excellent places to start.

Also, think of some things you'd like to do... for instance just yesterday I was wishing that I could turn on my house lights from my car so I didn't have to walk around in the dark to find my keys to the house and all of those things... that might be my next project.

Oh, and hang out here... there are a lot of smart folks here. You'll learn a lot.

 

"I'm tired of paying tons of money for college only to then be taught with youtube videos and handouts that I've already gone over on my own".





Excellent point, and no one learns faster than 'hands on', or OJT..

 

"What I seemed to see in the college graduates at that time was that they had been required to relinquish common sense in order to obtain the degree.

Also, they seemed to lack in curiosity".






Also saw a lot of that.

 

Good point, but the educational system should also cater to the self-learner, I don't really blame businesses as much because it's a risk vs reward scenario. Reduce the risk by creating institutions where one can gain credentials outside of the traditional college experience. Either free of charge or very cheap. This would also help to drive the cost of colleges down, because they would have to compete with free resources found online. I'm tired of paying tons of money for college only to then be taught with youtube videos and handouts that I've already gone over on my own.

You won't drive the cost of college down until and unless the forces that have been driving the cost of college up for that last three or so decades are reined in and that won't happen until Congress grasps basic economic concepts -- something that is unlikely to happen in this or pretty much any government.

 

"Luckily, i have a family business in industrial machine repair, like motor drives and power supplies, so i guess i'm still employed one way or another"

Many EE Graduates would "give their left arm" to be in your position.
It might be embarrassing to work in the family business,but it's a hell of a lot better than McDonalds!

If you actually work on this stuff,try to analyse the circuitry as you go,determine why the designer used particular techniques & components,why the mechanical design is done the way it is,& so on.
Take Workshop Manuals home,compare the circuitry with the stuff you learned.

Re-read your texts from the University---this time work through all the examples!
Look for other texts,as they often cover aspects that were neglected in the one you used.

This is how those of us without a Degree have to do things,& unless you have Alzheimer's Disease,you should remember
something from Uni.

This gives you a great advantage,in that Revision is easier than approaching something for the first time.