Latin, English. Ordered a Book dated 1849

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
17,240
I question the 'yo' construction on the end of the word. The Latin letter 'Y' was borrowed from the Greek letter Upsilon and usually would occur at the beginning of a word. I don't recall ever seeing any Latin words ending in 'yo'. I'm with @Alec_t on 'lanio' a verb meaning to tear, mangle, mutilate, or pull to pieces. Seems like a pretty violent activity.
 

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killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
805
I found it here.

https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=N10EAAAAQAAJ&rdid=book-N10EAAAAQAAJ&rdot=1

When I searched inside ‘Lanyo’ seemed like a letter i not y but if I type it in it pulls up i but its a small u shape at the top, not the typical i with a dot, one of the meanings also is ‘a butcher’ to cut as if an act of cutting, not excluding tearing. The name is referenced to date around 1015 a.d. there or about. However chronicles are from a name ‘Lanyo’ which was said to be a proper name. I looked for Old German and no Old Norse has any such name. So, either the scribes of the time didn‘t know how to write it or often times confused by latin, french, saxon, english. I did locate ‘a lamb’ which doesn’t make any sense.

It’s Origin is a name with two names together ‘Hroi’ old norse: ‘King’ ‘Hero’ and then ‘Lanyo’ unknown meaning just said by Historians as a Proper name.

I’ve been trying to find the correct meaning for over 10 years until today, I realized the roman occupation of England could have played a roll and could also have been a Roman Priest who declared the name, ‘Hroi’’Lanyo’ to an individual who came with a Danish King Cnute the Great at or around 1015 and became King over Mercia.

It’s difficult to rap my mind around, when it’s referencing an individual a Mercenary as ‘a Lamb’ but butcher, lol ya that makes sense.

kv

Edit: I’m just wondering if later the written “i” done with a latin letter as the letter “i” with the “u” shape at the top, maybe they just thought the letter was a “Y,” therefor changing the written meaning forever in history. Often is the case with this individuals name. Later it was changed to ‘Lance’ when cited the names of individuals in Knutsford England 1500’s by a writer by the name Green.

Once again it was a priest who was asked, who are the peoples living in the area for 5 centuries prior. Notation from ‘Cheshire notes and Queries’ the ”Lance’ version could have been a re-naming by William the Conqueror because this name re-appears in France, as if to be enlisted in his service in France upon his return.

That one is still a bit confusing as well, I see no reason for that name to appear in France but that it was William “Knighting” them. I’m still in the drilling down process, nothing refined as of yet. Lots of questions.
 
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killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
805
Oh, BTW. Thank you, @Papabravo @Alec_t @MaxHeadRoom for your suggestions.

Further, as I was looking again, my basic understanding of maybe it’s a Phonetic symbol the ‘i’ is pronounced ’Ya’ rather a ‘e’ sound Laneeo or the i sound Lan-io but a y sound Lan-yo. The book I referenced is a dictionary, so maybe it will phonetically give the proper sound. Not withstanding the spelling is or would be still correct. ‘Lanio’ I‘m feeling more comfortable about my spontaneous purchase to my collection, $49 for the hard copy.

It will work well in my collection.

Thanks again,

kv
 
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Ian0

Joined Aug 7, 2020
3,752
You can tell from its place in the text that it is and "i" not a "y", because it comes after "langour" and before "lanosus". The character is ĭ , "i" with a diacritical mark called a breve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breve
which indicates a short vowel. The pronunciation would be the same as in "audio" (I hear).
Because it's not a great image of the page, OCR has done the best it can and though it saw a "Y".
 

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killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
805
You can tell from its place in the text that it is and "i" not a "y", because it comes after "langour" and before "lanosus". The character is ĭ , "i" with a diacritical mark called a breve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breve
which indicates a short vowel. The pronunciation would be the same as in "audio" (I hear).
Because it's not a great image of the page, OCR has done the best it can and though it saw a "Y".
Thank you so much, I had no idea, I am ignorant of words and suffer from the lack of learning when it comes to language. But you have however, afforded me the opportunity to dispatch an entry to my works, my research will not be up ended rather to be scribed, I feel it an honor to participate with others even though I’m not worthy.

This sounds defensive, and is. But I mean no harm, I just seek clarity to wit none is offered by the written word vs. a spoken word. The bane of my existence the very reason I hate English still today, and why I refused. To read or write it as a child, till the age of 9 I was illiterate. Hence will be your confusion, what I am about, or why it means so much to me. It’s simple, I write as I speak, which frustrates others to no end. I apologize now.

Now Math on the other hand, is the love of my heart. lol

I don’t mean to push back, only that I do my diligence, and therefor bring a small yet a single distinct flaw when we approach language and vowels or maybe to be confused with consonants. Ancient languages are a study or a work in progress, when the scribes listen to an individual, that pronounced word or words can oft times render a linguistical nightmare, what? why did I use an adjective? see what I mean! it’s frustrating to me.

I only say this because over the centuries the name in question became a subject of confusion, which I will approach delicately because it is not only you, but is me, you are who you are and there is no doubt about it.

Lets say, if I were to call out your name in a crowed of people you might not hear me, you might pass it on, as if, I am calling out to someone else. If I do not pronounce it correctly, its not you, so it passes unnoticed.

Happens all the time, seen it on several occasions, I being the constant observer, of human behavior, find things like this fascinating.

So with that said, could you help me a bit, could the vowel have been confused? the meaning distorted or am I incorrect and need correction.

Thank you,

kv
 

Thread Starter

killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
805
Now that I think about it, is it possible, that the phonetic ‘y’ for lanyo could have been pronounced as an i ? Yet the need for the scribe to write it as a y? Is present at the time.

Something to investigate. Unsure how it might sound Gaelic or Germanic Saxon.

kv

Edit: Maybe this is why:

You can also find "y" functioning as a vowel when it's at the end of a syllable. These syllables can make up any part of the word, so the "y" may appear anywhere. Here are some words where "y" is found at the end of a beginning or middle syllable:
The English writer would or could have written it because they didn’t know latin, therefor the sound was ‘i’ because written the vowel ‘o’ followed.

Am I incorrect?
 
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killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
805
maybe should have a look at etymology for "lan" root first,
https://etymologeek.com/enm/lan
https://etymologeek.com/fax/lan
my sense about meaning is some thing that is wooly as the lamb you mentioned on the 2nd link for fax dict.
My Mis-understanding of the original Roy or Hroi is fine it’s this ‘Lanyo’ historians want to claim, yet by the 15th century it cited to be different yet English and is nothing close to the original ‘Lanyo’ by this time it’s ‘Lance’ not ‘Land’ either as some wanted to claim.

‘Lan’ ‘d’ finding that root has helped a lot. I see now why things were recorrected, taking the ‘Lanyo’ ‘Land’ part out and establishing ‘Lance’ far more sense when realizing where that individual came from, he was a Swiss Mercenary preferred weapon ‘Lance’ or ‘Spear’

kv
 

Thread Starter

killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
805
I question the 'yo' construction on the end of the word. The Latin letter 'Y' was borrowed from the Greek letter Upsilon and usually would occur at the beginning of a word. I don't recall ever seeing any Latin words ending in 'yo'. I'm with @Alec_t on 'lanio' a verb meaning to tear, mangle, mutilate, or pull to pieces. Seems like a pretty violent activity.
When did this occur? Do you have an approximate date? @Papabravo

Latin? never gave much thought into it, although the introduction of ‘Y’ is very interesting, I have a Greek Hebrew Translation I acquired 30 years ago, I wish it included Latin.

Back then I wasn’t into Ancient Manuscripts as I am today, I thought I would attend a theology class, seemed like a cool book to have, that ended quickly almost an after thought lol. In fact maybe only opened it once or twice, gave it to my daughter to make room in my library. She is on her own Theological Journey herself, may she find solace in her journey.

Suddenly this morning, it being ‘Y’ during what period of time when added to ’Latin’ during an evolution seemed important to my search.

Although I’m thrilled to have landed, for the lack of a better word, as I shred, tear, rip, words asunder the ‘Lanio’ will be used in the future. And in a form of necromancy resurrect them into a fuller more clear knowledge. I’ve always thought words like ‘Antidisestablishmentarianism’ were just an assembly or digital representation of smaller words and meanings all put together, some make sense, while others baffled, frustrated, and even angered me.

I read a book once didn’t make much sense to me at the time, I didn’t even know why I purchased it. ‘Syntactic Structuctures’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntactic_Structures#Contents

In Syntactic Structures, Chomsky changes the meaning of Hjelmslev's principle of arbitrariness which meant that the generative calculus is merely a tool for the linguist and not a structure in reality.[1][13] David Lightfoot however points out in his introduction to the second edition that there were few points of true interest in Syntactic Structures itself, and the eventual interpretations that the rules or structures are 'cognitive', innate, or biological would have been made elsewhere, especially in the context of a debate between Chomsky and the advocates of behaviourism.[12] But decades later Chomsky makes the clear statement that syntactic structures, including the object as a dependent of the verb phrase, are caused by a genetic mutation in humans
But, ‘Lan’ etomology the root thereof is at the very heart of my long term search, reasons for the, where, what, why, and how of it all.
 
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Yaakov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
3,736
@killivolt orthography (spelling) is a whole area of study in itself. How things are spelt, what the glyphs look like, and how they are pronounced is fluid, variable, and subject to evolution. n particular, vowels famously “shift” and even if the orthography is constant, the pronunciation can be very different from time to time and place to place.

Some languages (e.g.: Hebrew) don’t even properly have vowels in the orthography. In Hebrew’s case, there is something called “pointing” (Hebrew: “nikudim”) which comprise diacritical marks above and below the line, and inside a few characters to indicate vowels and hard or soft pronunciations which vowels usually determine..
 

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killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
805
The letters Y and Z were added to the classical Latin alphabet (ca. 3rd century BC) during the 1st century BC to write words of Greek origin.

Classical Latin Alphabet (omniglot.com)
Added this site to my lists, also spent some time reading about “Hannibal” the amount of history is quite interesting, what I did learn is about the Alps and the movements through them, not only for the romans apparently, it was the pathway to move troops. Each successful conquest altered language in an evolutionary way.

Survival of the fittest.

kv
 

Thread Starter

killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
805
You can tell from its place in the text that it is and "i" not a "y", because it comes after "langour" and before "lanosus". The character is ĭ , "i" with a diacritical mark called a breve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breve
which indicates a short vowel. The pronunciation would be the same as in "audio" (I hear).
Because it's not a great image of the page, OCR has done the best it can and though it saw a "Y".
I’m concluding in my work on this as you say it best. ‘OCR has done the best it can and though it saw a “Y”

Based on this I conclude the same is said to be true, not false whereby a simple transcription error takes place, the priests are the scribes if perhaps in the field post battle having taken place and I am given the liberty as many historians are moved by their own interpretations, then I take that liberty as well, even though I don’t have the credentials to do so. Therefor, writing history as I see it and my perspective of the event is “A quill inking out on paper as the ink is absorbed it blends, a breve now becomes a mistaken ”letter” and transposes disfiguring it the meaning is lost, and a very important one at that.

So, just as the “OCR” reads the word incorrectly I say that those attempting to do that same also read it incorrectly. “Lanio” becomes “Lanyo” if for any other reason I cannot find it, absent is the name “Lanyo” from history, some conclude it to be “Lamb” which is absurd, as I had mentioned in the above a person who is re-named by a King for their contributions on the Battlefield. Cnute the Great, also named the place of the birth of those inhabitance in a town named after him, said to be the place on a road where a decisive battle took place “Cnutes Ford” renamed by the English as “KnutsFord” simplified. “Ford” in Latin means Road, this is why I find it so difficult to rap my mind around an event that literally creates a town. Which I might add is the Ancestral birth of many descending peoples of that name origin.

Mistakenly recorded as “Hroi” “Lanyo” and “Lanyo“ meaning lamb a proper name in Saxon, I’ll refute this here, only because it does not withstand the litmus test. If someone were to be named a “Hroi” king or hero old norse, what if any is the meaning of a second name to pair it to? Lamb? No, this is why I say absurd, it is not acidic but watery diluted or actually replaced with water.

But, if it’s misidentified other were to be tested “Lanio” Latin meaning Butcher, now it is acidic and pairs quiet nicely I might add. Fitting for a Warrior Class peoples, hired by Cnute the Great, to embrace with him in a major Battle creating a name for a town that would later bear his name, yes it does make sense.

Conclusion, what is the purpose of this post, it is to bring to bear the true meaning of a peoples who have lost their personal identity, to lift them up to give them back their history, stolen by time and circumstance, and I might add to never again be confused with a second peoples who by the way are Welsh not Scandinavian, they, these peoples those who descended from this honored warrior class, elevated allowing them a lost heritage, noble in stature.

This will conclude my research, here ends my journey to this end I throw a gauntlet, it will reside on the .net for others to view refute as I have done my best and cannot find the “Lanyo” meaning to pair with an honored position of “Hroi” doesn’t match and little can be found in all my searches for “Lanyo” otherwise. This is my Thesis.

kv
 
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Ian0

Joined Aug 7, 2020
3,752
I thought I'd try my own experiment. I have my father-in-law's (Cassell's) Latin dictionary, which printed in New York probably early 20th Century.
0A681309-161D-4D1E-8A06-BBD784F85285.jpeg
It has almost the same diacritical marks as yours, so I put it through an OCR, and it completely ignored lănĭo, probably due to the fuzzy printing which runs slightly on cheap or really thin paper.

lanio is the verb (first person singular) as in to butcher, the noun is lanius

By the way, via is Latin for road, so Canute was probably crossing the river at Knutsford; although ffordd is Welsh for road, but Knutsford isn't really close enough to the Welsh border to have a Welsh name (and the letter "k" isn't used in Welsh). Ford in a place name, meaning a river crossing, is of Saxon origin, and the Saxons were here immediately after the Romans (5th Century) but Canute wasn't king until the 11th Century, so no-one is particularly sure about the origins of the name.

Did you know that Canute's grandfather was Harald Bluetooth?
 
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killivolt

Joined Jan 10, 2010
805
I thought I'd try my own experiment. I have my father-in-law's (Cassell's) Latin dictionary, which printed in New York probably early 20th Century.

It has almost the same diacritical marks as yours, so I put it through an OCR, and it completely ignored lănĭo, probably due to the fuzzy printing which runs slightly on cheap or really thin paper.

lanio is the verb (first person singular) as in to butcher, the noun is lanius

By the way, via is Latin for road, so Canute was probably crossing the river at Knutsford; although ffordd is Welsh for road, but Knutsford isn't really close enough to the Welsh border to have a Welsh name (and the letter "k" isn't used in Welsh). Ford in a place name, meaning a river crossing, is of Saxon origin, and the Saxons were here immediately after the Romans (5th Century) but Canute wasn't king until the 11th Century, so no-one is particularly sure about the origins of the name.

Did you know that Canute's grandfather was Harald Bluetooth?
lanio is the verb (first person singular) as in to butcher, the noun is lanius’

I like the difference in the meaning, Trans… Hangman, Executioner, not sure what Plaut is though. Butcher is in my Dictionary, of course with other associated meanings, haven’t had time to dig down, so, thank you for that. Hangman, Executioner not.

‘By the way, via is Latin for road’
I’m not sure where I got the Latin for Road, could have looked it up and tested it in my Dictionary lol again thank you. I think it was in a book but not sure who claimed the origin was latin.

The meaning in Saxon makes much more sense, since this individual I’ve been speaking of Origin is Southern Europe, in the Rheinland region, thats a different story, the area he came from is well known for producing Mercenaries in Switzerland, weapon of choice spear Or lance. My understanding is Roman Legions some remained after the fall of Rome integrating into that area of Switzerland and taught the Swiss or maybe their own children perhape thus raising them like a Roman Soldier. That resulted in of course the Austrian or Northern Italy now Romanish Canton.

‘but Canute wasn't king until the 11th Century, so no-one is particularly sure about the origins of the name.’

This is of interest to me since Cnute was prior as was his Father before him attempt to obtain Mercia, Cnute came in Conquest sanctioned by a Pope. This before 1066, Williams Conquest. Could you elaborate on the date 11th century please. And the ‘k’ I understood was of English origin.

‘Did you know that Canute's grandfather was Harald Bluetooth?’

I did see the Descending Tree, but not sure I connected that, but why Bluetooth? Is he significant? It all began with Rollo right in Viking Decent as I understand.

I will say, this ‘individual’ in question, might have arrive much earlier than English Historians Claim. With Cnute’s Father even.


Thank you for your enlightenment. This is very exiting to learn even a little tid bit more for clarification, my love for history exceeds my ability to grasp at times. Then I begin to reach for low hanging fruit and require reproof, your assistance is greatly apprieciated.

kv

Edit: I also began to re-read your page, noticed something very important, it supports the idea that the Translation was impure, since yours shows the upper portion of ’i’ with breve covering the dot and connected to the stem, basis of my argument, could you provide the book ISBN please. Oh and is it perhaps a Hard Cover.
 
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