My mains voltage is high (126.9V this morning,) and I get frequent failures with both CFLs and incandescents. My most frequent failures are in some enclosed ceiling fixtures; I run 100 watt incandescents there (because I need all the light I can get,) so I am sure that it's the added heat that causes the premature failures.

Aha! Your the one responsible for global warming!

 

Aha! Your the one responsible for global warming!

Mea culpa. I am also responsible for the absence of penguins north of the arctic circle and for the death of all polar bears in Antarctica.

 

Mea culpa. I am also responsible for the absence of penguins north of the arctic circle

Me too. It's their own fault: they taste just like chicken.

 

Me too. It's their own fault: they taste just like chicken.

So do polar bears -- the ultimate white meat!

 

I enjoy reading about various energy saving attempts.

Here's one for you; just take a moment to think about all of the plastic bags we use to get our food shopping home (by the way, these consume oil to make).

The plastic bag could disappear over night if and only if the globe committed itself through the use of reusable bags.

The defence says, "They're for convenience", I say, "Really?". Honestly, how hard can it be to keep a few empty bags in the boot of the car?

If we're not capable of such a simple task, then what the f**k are we capable of in going green.

 

Seriously? I go shopping about once a week for a household of two people, and get maybe 7 or 8 plastic bags each time. Do you really think 8 plastic bags per week for two people really makes much of an impact on the world?

This is the problem with "green" thinking. People get penny wise and pound foolish, ie; focusing hard on something that really doesn't make that much difference.

If you really want to suggest a change that would make a serious impact on the environment, what about reducing the number of cars on the road? Every traffic jam and busy street is full of big cars and each has ONE idiot inside. And what's worse most are stupid large SUV things because idiots think they need to buy a massive 4WD brick just to drive a few miles to work each day.

Some could car pool, some could walk or ride a bicycle, some could get the bus or train. Some could get smart and work from home now we have superb comms in the internet age.

Plastic bags are not the problem, the real green problem is people who think we need to focus on plastic bags and CFLs instead of the things that REALLY make a difference.

 

Seriously? I go shopping about once a week for a household of two people, and get maybe 7 or 8 plastic bags each time. Do you really think 8 plastic bags per week for two people really makes much of an impact on the world?

This is the problem with "green" thinking. People get penny wise and pound foolish, ie; focusing hard on something that really doesn't make that much difference.

If you really want to suggest a change that would make a serious impact on the environment, what about reducing the number of cars on the road? Every traffic jam and busy street is full of big cars and each has ONE idiot inside. And what's worse most are stupid large SUV things because idiots think they need to buy a massive 4WD brick just to drive a few miles to work each day.

Some could car pool, some could walk or ride a bicycle, some could get the bus or train. Some could get smart and work from home now we have superb comms in the internet age.

Plastic bags are not the problem, the real green problem is people who think we need to focus on plastic bags and CFLs instead of the things that REALLY make a difference.

Ok here is my ultimate change.

And this idea of renewable energy is total BS (well it will suffice for, let's say a bit of hot water).

The auto motive's dream is to replace the internal combustion engine with a rechargeable battery driven engine (the hydrogen fuel cell will never take-off). I predict, in the future to come, there will be no such thing as off-peak power; because when everyone goes to sleep at night, the x amount of cars being charged will force the GRID back into full-swing.

In order to furnish the required power, we will always depend on the same power derived sources just like before as far as antiquity.

The only way to overcome the problem is to harness the sun's energy on the astrophysics scale; because there is no other candidate that is in agreement with E=mc^2.

 

If you personally get good life from CFLs it is not proof that they always have long life. Your mains voltage might be on the low side (mine is on the high side) and your environment temps at night might be on the cold side (my temps are on the hot side) and so on.

It does prove that it is possible to get long service life from CFLs, however. Other factors to consider are the quality of the lamps, as there is alot of cheap junk on the market. Also, using the lamps in accordance with manufacture's guidelines is a factor. More than likely, I adopted the technology before the cheap stuff made its appearance, and I make sure the power electronics have adequate ventilation. This can easily explain why I get better service, despite not having ideal operating conditions (it gets hot in Alabama too)

 

It does prove that it is possible to get long service life from CFLs, however.

Okay, but then there is a well-documented light bulb in a firestation in California that has been in nearly continuous use for over a century. How many CFL's will make it that long.

Now, the odds are stacked in the firehouse bulb's favor because it is used as a night light above the trucks and is therefore run at a fraction of its rated wattage. So it really doesn't prove much of anything. But it's still interesting.

Some people use this bulb's existence as proof that today's goods are designed to fail quickly when previously they were designed to last. While that may or may not be, the fact that the bulb is operated so far below it's duty rating makes any such claims specious at best.

 

Okay, but then there is a well-documented light bulb in a firestation in California that has been in nearly continuous use for over a century. How many CFL's will make it that long.

I think that bulb will fail soon.

We have had a lot of layoffs in Police and Fire in recent years here in Cali. They had to lay off the guy who snuck in and changed that bulb every week.

 

Being truly green is about doing with much less- the anathema of corporate capitalism.
Nobody is going to get rich saving the earth.

 

Okay, but then there is a well-documented light bulb in a firestation in California that has been in nearly continuous use for over a century. How many CFL's will make it that long.

Now, the odds are stacked in the firehouse bulb's favor because it is used as a night light above the trucks and is therefore run at a fraction of its rated wattage. So it really doesn't prove much of anything. But it's still interesting.

Some people use this bulb's existence as proof that today's goods are designed to fail quickly when previously they were designed to last. While that may or may not be, the fact that the bulb is operated so far below it's duty rating makes any such claims specious at best.

Let's not act like we don't know how things work.

Incandescent bulbs have a pretty simple principle of operation and their life expectancy is pretty standard as well.

The newer-technology bulbs are much more complicated to design, to produce and in operation, hence there are many more points of failure. Still, they don't come with recommendations and restrictions on their power supply; Incandescent bulbs didn't need to specify such ratings, manufacturers of CFLs don't want to give out such ratings out of fear of backlash from the market.

As with any technological item, the old usually is simpler to construct and maintain, but the new can provide much more, if treated right.

 

I save the world by not mowing my grass. All those noxious fumes from the lawn mower, ick! And by not trimming my trees; they shade my house and reduce the load on my A/C. And by never washing my cars or diveway; you know that we are coming up on a global water shortage? I don't wash my hands or flush public toilets when I go (#1 OR #2), in hopes the next user will be like-minded and help me double or triple the use of a single flush. My wife and coworkers have gotten used to my 2 day toothbrush & shower policy. I don't pick up dog crap; that's just nutrients removed from the earth and added to the burden of the landfill - if you see my dog pop a grand exhibitionist squat in your yard and deposit a brown snake, that is a GIFT, to you and to the earth; treat it as such. I eat as much beef as possible to cut down on the cow population since I heard cow farts contribute to global warming as much as cars do.

[/sarcasm] I don't even have a dog.

 

...
Now, the odds are stacked in the firehouse bulb's favor because it is used as a night light above the trucks and is therefore run at a fraction of its rated wattage. So it really doesn't prove much of anything. But it's still interesting.
...

The primary failure mode of incandescents is during turn on, mainly if being turned on at a mains peak. I believe that firehouse bulb is never turned off?

I just measured an Osram brand 100W 240v incandescent bulb, it has a cold filament resistance of 44.0 ohms. My mains is often measured up around 255 volts, which has a peak voltage of 255*1.414 = 360v DC.

If the bulb is turned on during a mains peak, the instantaneous filament power is Esquared/R = 360*360/44.0 = 2945 Watts! That's an incredible power inrush for a tiny hair-sized filament! (USA people on 120v might want to run that same calc for their cold bulb filament resistance, it would be interesting).

The only times I get incandescent bulb failures are at turn on, the bulbs never fail when running. On the other hand, CFLs simply cook themselves to death every minute they are turned on, and they can and do fail at any time when running.

 

The primary failure mode of incandescents is during turn on, mainly if being turned on at a mains peak. I believe that firehouse bulb is never turned off?

I just measured an Osram brand 100W 240v incandescent bulb, it has a cold filament resistance of 44.0 ohms. My mains is often measured up around 255 volts, which has a peak voltage of 255*1.414 = 360v DC.

If the bulb is turned on during a mains peak, the instantaneous filament power is Esquared/R = 360*360/44.0 = 2945 Watts! That's an incredible power inrush for a tiny hair-sized filament! (USA people on 120v might want to run that same calc for their cold bulb filament resistance, it would be interesting).

The only times I get incandescent bulb failures are at turn on, the bulbs never fail when running. On the other hand, CFLs simply cook themselves to death every minute they are turned on, and they can and do fail at any time when running.

It's probably more meaningful to consider the energy input rather than the power. If the inrush lasts for only a couple of milliseconds then the energy inrush becomes comparatively modest in relation to the energy input rate at steady state.

Another perspective might be the I^2t function which is a measure sometimes applied to fuse energy let through.

 

The primary failure mode of incandescents is during turn on, mainly if being turned on at a mains peak.

This is what I always believed, but a couple of extensive studies, one by one of the main power institutes and one by one of the national labs, strongly indicate otherwise and that the total time the bulb has been on is the primary determiner. Of course, time at at rated power and time on at 10% of rated power are not the same thing. The basic conclusion was that the number of cycles the bulb experiences is a minor factor and the total time at operating temperature is the most. The primary mechanism is the progressive evaporation of the filament over time when at temperature and that this results in a thin spot in the filament, which is then the hottest spot in the filament and therefore it evaporates the quickest making it thin the fastest.

A bulb that is regularly cycled tends to fail just a bit before a bulb that is never cycled at all and that is because there is more stress during the inrush period. Basically, once the bulb reaches the very tail of its life, it will either burn out soon on its own or it will fail on the next power cycle.

And, yes, that bulb is never intentionally turned off and it is run WAY before its rated power.

 

I just thought I would add my 2 cents here. Back in the fall of 2009 I changed out most of the lights in my house to CFL's. Because I was curious about there lifetimes I marked the installation date on each one. They have just started failing this Fall (2013) In fact I just had one fail today, it is marked 10/10/2009. I dont think 4 years is too bad. Also I didnt put CFL's in any enclosed fixtures that would get too hot, and I used Sylvania CFL's.

 

I did a similar thing back around then and I have had good run time with most of my CFL's as well.

I found the cheap chinese ones work best and last longest if they are in open air applications where they don't do a lot of on off cycling every day.

The good brand name ones don't seem to have much issues with being used anywhere else.

Enclosed fixtures do die quicker and the outdoor ones have to be rated for our winters or one good night of -20 F kills them due to not being able to start properly.

 

So cfls work ok in ideal conditions.

What do we use other places? Now that incandescent are illegal.

I trust the market to decide. I didn't need a push to save money.

Most of my lights have dimmers. Bulbs last a long long time.

False efficiency. Dimmed bulbs are much less efficient. As are 130volt rated bulbs and rough service.

Yet dimmed bulbs save me money on my utility bill. And replacement cost.

There is more to the story than the lumen per watt equation.

 

The environment is going to hell in a hand-basket, because we have turned the Earth inside out.

One day, they will find that a lot of these illnesses, diseases, conditions, and cancers; were caused by this.


Think of all the drilling and mining going on around the World 24/7.


Some things should have been left underground.


The American Indians, and several other tribes of the World; never mined anything.