Is Talent A Mental Illness Or Is Psychiatry A Junk Science?

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
I don't think there is a psychiatrist in our group, but there hasn't been an intellectually dubious response yet.
I see psycho anilism as being something we all know far more about that we realize given our hard wired design to be social and read social/emotional and like cues (body and voice tone cueing) as a intricate and high level form of spread spectrum communication.

It's literally hardwired into us to each be a psychoanalyst who is constantly assessing the mental, emotional, physical, verbal and social placeholder fit interaction process status and capacities of everyone we interact with without us even being directly conscious of it and is what gives us that 'gut feeling' about people as to whether they are honest and trustworthy or being deceptive or if they have something that is 'wrong in the head' going on with them.

It's why someone acting out as a idiot troll doesn't sit well with us. Our inner psychoanalyst is red flagging the crap out of their actions for being out of our ingrained standards of proper acceptable social and cognitive group function behavior on every level which in turn sets off every instinctual alarm we have saying that there is something likely dangerously wrong with this individual in order to be acting as they are.
It's why overriding that feeling is so hard due to our inherently instinctively pre wired into our danger assessment fight/flight reflex responses that tells us at our core level what they are doing and how they are acting is not in the acceptable range of proper non threatening civil social behavior.

Our inner psychoanalyst is what is assessing the merit and social weighting value we place on everyone right down to how we perceive their intelligence, trustworthiness, honesty, intent, and more or their lacking of and in any or all of it and to what possible reason and or motive may be behind any and all of it. Especially so when we have assessed and logged a baseline standard for their normal actions and they are now acting completely outside of that defined and understood to be normal for them standard value set.

So when you say none of us are psychiatrists I disagree. We are all psychiatrist/psychologists/psychoanalysts and few of us even dimly aware of how damn good of one's we are! :cool:
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,081
Real Autism seems to be a genetic trait of people with some types of minds that also seems to be a reinforcing trait in like minds. In some ways I see it as human evolution in action. The type of mind that can spend years in concentrated study of sometimes completely abstract concepts looks to be a quirk in human development that's slowing becoming somewhat mainstream while our system of training moves into the opposite directions of mediocrity and uniformity. What we call ASD in mild forms gives some people the ability to visualize problems in the same way that advanced math gives some people the intuition to see beyond the fog of numbers. Unfortunately with others it makes a bottomless pit of frustration. My hope is we can find ways to 'humanize' this population while retaining their power of concentration on details.

Fortunately my younger son who is autistic was much better in a very strict and controlled learning environment that once was the norm in grade school but now seems to be the exception in most schools. I was very lucky that in a small school district most of the older methods were still intact.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/diagnostics/engineers-and-autism
He notes that engineers are twice as likely as others to have autistic children, and that in general, the relatives of autistic people tend to score above the average on tests of systemizing. An unusual number fall on the ”autistic spectrum,” which includes conditions such as Asperger’s syndrome, a disorder that can leave children isolated, if not actually disabled. Yet even Asperger’s may not constitute a true handicap, because it is so often accompanied by countervailing powers—sometimes even by genius. Newton and Einstein have been cited as possible examples.
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/issue...alent-making-space-for-autism-in-engineering/
Often, autistic people struggle with loose or open instructions. If, however, they are given clear goals and instructions then they will tap into that autistic focus and get the tasks done effectively and efficiently. Most neurotypical people tend to enjoy having the freedom to interpret tasks on their own and tackle problems in their own way. Autistic people will often need some help starting and structuring a task but once they understand exactly what they need to do they will excel. In some respects, they actually respond well to micro-management, which is of course a common complaint from most workers.
 

Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
Real Autism seems to be a genetic trait of people with some types of minds that also seems to be a reinforcing trait in like minds. In some ways I see it as human evolution in action. The type of mind that can spend years in concentrated study of sometimes completely abstract concepts looks to be a quirk in human development that's slowing becoming somewhat mainstream while our system of training moves into the opposite directions of mediocrity and uniformity. What we call ASD in mild forms gives some people the ability to visualize problems in the same way that advanced math gives some people the intuition to see beyond the fog of numbers. Unfortunately with others it makes a bottomless pit of frustration. My hope is we can find ways to 'humanize' this population while retaining their power of concentration on details.

Fortunately my younger son who is autistic was much better in a very strict and controlled learning environment that once was the norm in grade school but now seems to be the exception in most schools. I was very lucky that in a small school district most of the older methods were still intact.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/diagnostics/engineers-and-autism


https://www.theengineer.co.uk/issue...alent-making-space-for-autism-in-engineering/
As I said in my first post on this thread, so called autism may be more of a talent and a resource and society should figure out a way to cultivate these people's way of thinking instead of labeling them as being mentally ill. In fact, there are a lot of autistic persons gainfully employed in the tech industry.

In one strange case, a 25 year old programmer was earning over 140K per year, but he was still living at home with his parents and even paying for their living expenses too boot. However, the parents were also disturbed that he didn't want to live on his own and he might be inflicted with autism/Aspeger's syndrome.A classic case of "Being on the horns of a dilemma".
 

Motanache

Joined Mar 2, 2015
540
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Motanache

Joined Mar 2, 2015
540
The author, Dr. Cucu, says we can advertise his book.

I saw people around me fallen like that.
Even to me a person makes a serious problems in my life to generate a depression as first step.
 

Motanache

Joined Mar 2, 2015
540
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4418265/
Even schizophrenia may seem to be induced by an infection.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7943444
Authorities do not recognize.

They even withdrew his right to profess of Dr. Burrascano after he helped his patients.
The $ 100,000 spent by him in the trial did not help him.

You can see on youtube how Dr. Burrascano is applauded by a room full of specialists. And then all those specialists are stupid? And one who contradicts it is right?

Does a doctor who loves patients and help them is wrong?
What happened to this doctor is a signal for the rest.

Do you prefer to lose the money you spend on medicine and help this people ?


I could write a lot about this subject but maybe you are not interested. However, if this is the direction we want to discuss, we can continue. Or if you just want to talk about autism, we can discuss about autism.

Edit: I gave citations, links (if they lie on those sites, I could lie too)

John Forbes Nash Jr. (June 13, 1928 – May 23, 2015) the hero of the film A Beautiful Mind a 2001 He was a brilliant mathematician who has come to have schizophrenia.

That's why I've linked up with the topic title, but maybe this is not the desired direction of the topic.
We can talk about nash pareto equilibrium.
 
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nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,081
As I said in my first post on this thread, so called autism may be more of a talent and a resource and society should figure out a way to cultivate these people's way of thinking instead of labeling them as being mentally ill. In fact, there are a lot of autistic persons gainfully employed in the tech industry.
Unfortunately most won't have a special talent that's usable in any capacity. In many cases where autism is serious it's a intellectually and developmentally disabled world for that person for life. The most you can do is to help them live to their limits.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
Unfortunately most won't have a special talent that's usable in any capacity. In many cases where autism is serious it's a intellectually and developmentally disabled world for that person for life. The most you can do is to help them live to their limits.
Yep. Much like most developmentally disabled people are stuck with. Given their natural limitations if they're lucky if they will shine in one single area of life and that's it and that area may in itself not serve all that much of a purpose in overall society.

Years ago I worked as a copier repair tech and one of my regular route customers was the local 'Vocational Workshop' where they worked with the disabled largely doing recyclable materials sorting and low skill work. Very few were good at much of anything but the ones who were capable of learning seemed to all have very unique talents they excelled at even if they were purely remedial labor based.

One fellow was the human paper shredder. He ran a hand crank paper shredder and loved his job! If you needed a piece of paper (or a truckload ) shredded into dust in a day that was the guy to go too! Couldn't read or write and his speaking ability was down in the 3 - 5 year old range at best but he knew manual paper shredding like no one else! :D

Another guy was what I would call a human forklift. A literal 400# gorilla of human beings but a gentle as a kitten. When it came to unloading recyclable items from a customer's vehicle or putting bundled goods in the commercial truck that hauled the sorted material away I never once saw something that guy couldn't move like it was nothing. I am a born and raised farm boy who's stronger than the majority of people but that guy made me feel small and weak just watching him. :cool:

I used to pick up their spare wood pallets for firewood and more than once while loading I saw that guy carry four 48"x 48" -52" heavy oak pallets around at once. A size and type of pallet that is typically 80 - 100# each! Two on each arm and walking around like like I do with two 42" x 48" pine pallets that maybe weigh 40 - 50 pounds each. :eek:
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,081
You are aware that the criteria for diagnosis of autism changed in 2013. The result has been the "spectrum" diagnosis that captured a lot of patients that used to be borderline. You can read more about it here:

http://blogs.webmd.com/breaking-news/2012/01/autism-diagnosis-change-what-does-it-mean.html

There are a lot of competing interests in a change like this. Insurance, Doctors, Patients etc etc etc
Most of these people had some indicators at Level 1 already. It looks like a consolidation that might have excluded some of the people that were recategorized.
https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism/diagnosis/dsm-5-diagnostic-criteria

If you want and need to keep federal disability benefits for autism it definitely has not gotten easier.
 

KL7AJ

Joined Nov 4, 2008
2,229
We keep hearing about the so called epidemic of the so called "mental illness" of autism or Asperger's Syndrome, however I'm very skeptical about the scientific validity of any of these diagnosis. In fact,many highly skilled people are being portrayed as being autistic and there's now a TV series about a doctor who is allegedly inflicted with autism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Doctor_(TV_series)

Furthermore, that TV series seems to be an insidious form of propaganda and an attempt to legitimize the highly questionable diagnosis of autism and other claims of an epidemic of mental illness. Anyone who's done any reading on the subject of psychiatry should know it's nothing but a glorified witch hunt and a quack science and an illegitimate use of medical procedures.

Even much worse, I find it hypocritical and obscene that U.S. businesses claim they need more H1-B visas to hire skilled tech workers, while at the same time there are many talented U.S. born citizens who are being labeled as autistic.
So are you saying I should get a refund for my icepick lobotomy?
 

Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
Unfortunately most won't have a special talent that's usable in any capacity. In many cases where autism is serious it's a intellectually and developmentally disabled world for that person for life. The most you can do is to help them live to their limits.
If the person is verbally crippled by a communicative disorder that is believed to be a form of mental illness, how can a physician fine tune their diagnosis as a case of autism? You need to get a lot of detailed information about the patient and if he/she cannot communicate with you, it's like trying to analyze a black hole where nothing can get past the event horizon.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,081
If the person is verbally crippled by a communicative disorder that is believed to be a form of mental illness, how can a physician fine tune their diagnosis as a case of autism? You need to get a lot of detailed information about the patient and if he/she cannot communicate with you, it's like trying to analyze a black hole where nothing can get past the event horizon.
I raised a child with autism. After being with him and around his classmates for 18 years during school it unfortunately becomes much easier to analyze the nonverbal symptoms of the disorder even for a layman.
 

Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
On the subject of psychiatry, I'm wondering if chronic depression and mood disorders might actually be caused by a persistent infection by the common cold cold virus.

From my own experience, I can tell when a cold is coming on by changes in mood that occur about 24 to 48 hours prior to the physical symptoms. When the cold is in the latter phase of dissipating, my mood drastically improves and reaches a peak, then it gradually drops back down to the normal level.

So instead of trying to treat depression as a mental illness, they should do a thorough analysis of the person's overall physical health
 

Motanache

Joined Mar 2, 2015
540
I can tell when a cold is coming on by changes in mood that occur about 24 to 48 hours prior to the physical symptoms.
Congratulations! Very few people can do that!
Most people do not understand what's going on with them.

Have you also noticed variations in your appetite?
Sometimes you want to eat too much, sometimes too little?

The body feels a wrong energy need at certain times.
This change in status if it continues can reach bipolar..
 
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Motanache

Joined Mar 2, 2015
540
The problem is that much of the psychiatric treatments add dependence.
Like the drugs, you'll want something stronger.
If the body gets from outside a chemical substance, it gives up a secret its own.

As I said in the previous message, the mathematician who took the Nobel prize J. Nash has become mentally ill. The illness does not depend on intelligence.

Why?

Imagine walking around the street and eating ice cream. We assume you suddenly see a very big truck coming to you.
Do you feel the taste of ice cream?......
In this program J Nash's mind endeavored to run away from there.

The specialist doctor can see signs one year before. If he is honest, he'll tell you.
If it's not honest, he wait for treatment dependence.

Going to a doctor who does not know you personally is a good idea.
(I know people who signed contracts of confidentiality with the doctor and with all this all their friends found out from those doctors and laugh at them)
 
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Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
I raised a child with autism. After being with him and around his classmates for 18 years during school it unfortunately becomes much easier to analyze the nonverbal symptoms of the disorder even for a layman.
I'm just wondering if your doctor(s) did a thorough analysis of your child's symptoms and exactly how they narrowed their diagnosis to autism.

In my very layman's opinion, the symptoms of autism closely resemble Persistent Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (PCFS) that has effected a significant number military personnel who served in the Gulf War and in Iraq. The affect of PCFS would be a lot more serious in children especially if they contracted the disease as infants or during the first several years of development.

As for the question of what causes PCFS in certain adults, military personnel are given a lot of different vaccines -especially those working overseas where there's a greater risk of exposure to pathogens. Also, the children of veterans also seem to have autism more than the general population. Then there's a correlation between children who have been vaccinated for measles and the diagnosis of autism.

It seems that both PCFS and autism appeared at about the same time frame (in the last 20 years) so the two diseases may have a common denominator of some sort. Whether the link is related to vaccinations or something else in the environment needs more research before solid conclusions can be made.
 
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Motanache

Joined Mar 2, 2015
540
Psychiatry A Junk Science?
I met manipulators saying this. The sooner at an honest doctor go, the better is.

For example, an honest doctor asks you to wait.
Why?
Because waiting is part of the consultation. During the wait, you can become more nervous and he evaluates that with short eyes on the waiting person.
 

Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
Psychiatry A Junk Science?
I met manipulators saying this. The sooner at an honest doctor go, the better is.

For example, an honest doctor asks you to wait.
Why?
Because waiting is part of the consultation. During the wait, you can become more nervous and he evaluates that with short eyes on the waiting person.
Sounds like Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle applied to medical science. The process of examining a patient also disturbs the body and mind so the doctor cannot determine the exact symptoms.
 
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