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# insurance ?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mathematics!, Jun 28, 2013.

1. ### Mathematics! Thread Starter Senior Member

Jul 21, 2008
1,022
4
I am curious about the prices in insurance for both property/casualty (including home , auto , boat , valuables you can securer ,...etc)
And the other category of insurance life/health

What I want to know is what the average person pays for the different types of insurances in each of the 50 us states for 2012/2013 ish era? (the min, avg, max would be perfect)

Also want to see a chart of the last 20 years so I can estimate the growth of economical rise in insurance rates for each type and why?

The reason for this is I want to better understand insurance types/rates/options and what a reasonable price is for each in the event of me having to go thru a insurance agency for something. Since for me there is no frame of reference so one could say two cents or a thousand dollars and that would be meaningless to me in determining how they came up with that figure.
There must be some equation for this... for example like \$2 per ft of wire or something because the raw material cost that. Although I know it is a losing battle when it comes into sentimental things like health , life... but for property/valuables I would see this as possible at least just basing it on the 2 factors. raw material cost + labor

So if there are any insurance agency out there that don't mind posting the math equation/formula there using it would be great. It is probably like something like raw materials + maybe labor to remake + there stipend
The problem with this formula is "maybe labor to remake" and "the insurance agents stipend cut/profit"
That is the areas I am most curious of for insuring valuables and that would be the 2 cost factors that would effect the cost of the price compared to the raw lowest cost for just materials it could be.
So I am assuming there is some type of insurance profit/cut formula / reasonable average to stick with in estimating if they are ripping you off or giving you a deal. (in terms of what they should be getting for a stipend)
The labor to remake is normally out of there hands I would imagine though the insurance agency could effect it if they where bringing more business to the fixers ... example would be auto mechanic they charge X but they now charge Y which is less then X. But since they get more customers from the insurance agency they make more over all... I get that.

Thanks for any thoughts,opinons,logic , theory , and help
As I am lost in figuring this out and am a good predator for getting screwed over in the event that I have to find insurance for something on my own.

2. ### BillO Distinguished Member

Nov 24, 2008
992
139
I'm in Canada, so it might not be relevant.

I pay \$3,127/y for insurance on 1 house, 2 vacant lots, 4 cars, 2 motorcycles and 2 ATVs for 4 people ages 56, 55, 24, 22 in various convoluted combinations.

Sorry, I do not have the time to put this together, even if I kept records that long. Do you really think anyone has? Did you think this through before you asked?

My apologies, but aren't predators the ones that traditionally do the screwing over? Perhaps your in a 'vegan state' government. Or maybe you meant 'prey'.

3. ### loosewire AAC Fanatic!

Apr 25, 2008
1,571
442
@ Billo, your post looks like the Insurance ads all over the T.V.

4. ### BillO Distinguished Member

Nov 24, 2008
992
139
Hey loosewire, how are you making out with those iguanas these days?

Sorry I sound like and ad, but really I hate insurance companies. In the 40 years I've been paying insurance, I have paid well over a million \$ and have never had a claim. How they get the gumption to force me to pay what they do, irks me to no end.

5. ### loosewire AAC Fanatic!

Apr 25, 2008
1,571
442
After the the big Florida freeze they are coming back. Front page of newspaper

they back eating all the flowers. I have been ask to train some of them to do a

disappearing act. What bothers you in Canada ,to cold for a lot of things ,even

my fire ants are not up there yet or are they...report back.

6. ### BillO Distinguished Member

Nov 24, 2008
992
139
Mosquitoes this year.

It's been over 90 in the last week. It does get hot here. No fire ants here. But they are worse in Louisiana than Florida.

Mostly what is bothering me this year is that, for some odd reason my peppers, onions and tomatoes are behind schedule. We've had lots of sun recently and lots of rain. So what's the problem...

Oh, and also, I'm tired of being retired, but no one will hire me.

7. ### loosewire AAC Fanatic!

Apr 25, 2008
1,571
442
Do like I do ,keep your self out there someone that knows you will have

something. I have project without resume or application thru a friend.

I was in the sun today it was 90 ,but it felt good. Our food taste bad,

do you have good seeds ,anything that comes from a seed taste bla.

8. ### BillO Distinguished Member

Nov 24, 2008
992
139
It's not the seed for the most part. Good tasting veggies is more nurture than nature. Choose the right location, keep the soil fresh, water correctly, keep the bugs and fungus at bay and make sure the fertilization is done right.

BTW, I usually start with seedlings rather than seed. A lot of the seeds today are genetically (through breeding) altered to not produce a viable 2nd crop, so they are not worth the effort. There are some 'ancient' seed strains about, but they are hard to come bye.

9. ### loosewire AAC Fanatic!

Apr 25, 2008
1,571
442
I see old seeds packs at moving sales , I thing seeds can last along time.

If you buy something they will give you the seeds. Some of the tru-value

stores may have some seeds. Places that sell hay and peanuts may have old

seeds.

10. ### Mathematics! Thread Starter Senior Member

Jul 21, 2008
1,022
4
Hey meant prey vocab is not my strong points ... bullshitting is lol

I am thinking though if one was to calculate out how much he pays in insurance for valuables over time. Would it be better not to insure and just buy it brained new or pay somebody to fix when it comes to valuables like home , car , boat ,...etc

Seems to me if you are an auto mechanic why would you need auto insurance when you can just fix it yourself. Other then the cost of the parts which I doubt would cost more then you would pay in insurances over time . This is just one case if you possess the ability to fix any valuables you possess and don't mind spending the time to fix then why would you want insurance for it.

Even if you did not have auto insurance and still racked up raw parts damages of over a few thousand dollars how would a loan for a thousand dollars cost more then insurances? I would have a hard time at finding raw parts costing over a few thousand dollars in 90% of the damages but maybe I am wrong.

Plus if you knew how to fix everything that you had and had the tools to do (or had access to the tools to do so) and enjoyed/didn't mind fixing when it arises then why would you go thru the third party insurance agency?

Don't get me wrong I am not saying insurance agencies are a bad thing or a good thing.

11. ### Mathematics! Thread Starter Senior Member

Jul 21, 2008
1,022
4
For life insurance this would be nothing more then opening another savings account and putting a small portion of your pay check into it on a regular bases then having in your WILL I want this amount to go to my kid's and wife.... this amount going to XYZ.

The life insurance policies at there basic level is just doing this for you anyway with a few extra bells and whistles
Though I would be curious if you enhanced the savings account by using mutual funds, stocks,bonds, ira ...etc would it be
better then the deals you get with the life insurance policies now a days.

For health insurance lets forget this one... nothing can insure your health good enough then being healthy and more then 90% of health problems can probably be cured by yourself at home for the most part (5% of them probably you would rather just live with or die with ) and the other 5% is when you really need it. I maybe exaggerating a little but the only thing you can base the cost of a procedure on is the cost of raw medical materials and the doctors time/work I guess.

So if I was to get medical insurance the only reasonable way I would do it is if I could have a list of all the medical procedures materials and the cost of each one. Then how much each procedure is so I can do the math to figure out how much the doctors work/time is. Seems to me if it is the same procedure then every doctor should get paid the same amount of money. And the same materials should cost the same amount of money....

kind of know this quote is not true fully since it would depend on the time spend/work (some people need more done ...etc )
while the flip side is that they can't fix you........ so in these cases should they get paid more money and if they fail you get your money back

Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
12. ### Mathematics! Thread Starter Senior Member

Jul 21, 2008
1,022
4
See what most people don't understand is this.
1) What Majority of people believe on issue's is what everybody eventually must conform to.
2) What Majority of culture / society believes is what people most conform to.

So if majority of societies believe over time can change there is no true rule set in stone not even the ten commandments based rules to live by.

Of course here is the paradox 1) and 2) don't always have to hold because my believes can change as well correct me if I am wrong.... (who's on first who...)

But you have to question if most humans are instinctually born with the ten commandments already in there subconscious that's what would give the birth of religions.... ( which breaking that down is nothing more the folk/story telling (truth of it is obviously debatable but the objective is good none the less) to teach a point of how one should act
Or give a good point on what the majority should believe on how to act.... which is a good thing it makes order out of chaos's in the behavior/living/acting towards others.

Now when money comes into the picture and even just the barder system it brings chaos.
Since with out the money/barder system one would think you would have chaos but that would only be true if people where inherently selfish and didn't want to do things for other people for free just because they want to or could....
why again should we have a money system O wait for the selfish people that don't know how to help people for free.

Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
13. ### LDC3 Active Member

Apr 27, 2013
920
161
It depends on where you live. In California, the law requires you have minimum coverage of liability insurance to drive a car. Of course, this has nothing to do with damage to the car.

14. ### #12 Expert

Nov 30, 2010
18,076
9,691
Basic rant:

Once upon a time, the concept of insurance was to help people that suffered a catastrophe by allowing a group of people "bet" a percentage of their money that someday, something bad would happen to them.

If the weather was dry, the mountain folks would have a poor corn crop and the river folks would prosper. In a wet year, the mountain folks would prosper and the river folks would get flooded. Ninety percent of the people had an average year and the money was measured out to the people that had a bad year.

Then some Business College Graduate organized the paperwork, incorporated the whole thing, sold the company, got rich, and now the concept of insurance is, "How to make a profit for people that don't even know corn seed is pink".

I haven't made a claim against any insurance policy in 24 years, but my Homeowners Insurance went up 700%. Guess who gets the money.

Consider going to Wall Street to buy stock in insurance companies. If you do that, you will get paid every year without having to hire a lawyer to sue the money out of your insurance company when lightning turns your circuit breaker box into a blob of stinking metal and burnt plastic, or a burglar trips on a skate board and breaks his arm.

Thank you for your patience. End of rant.

15. ### Mathematics! Thread Starter Senior Member

Jul 21, 2008
1,022
4
Questions
1) does all the US states have a minimum requirement?
2) does the min requirement depend on the type or model of the vehicle or is it some basic fix value (I understand when you insure cars if you have more then the min coverage for insurance as well as dependents or other thing it is different for different types /models. Though I am unsure if it is reasonable fix for the min insurance coverage required by state )
3) does all the US states have a minimum requirement for insuring vehicles or is there some states that allow you to drive uninsured (not saying that is a good or bad thing)
4) for the types of vehicles is only residential transportation have to be insured or do you have to insure bus,airplanes,boats,rockets ,...etc?
5) Does all motorized vehicles have to have some min insurance to drive on the road? Like what happens if a farmers tractor hits a car , or a moped motor vehicle , or a ATV , or dirt bike.... I just want to know with this question the extent of what motorized vehicles have to be insured.

Thanks

Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
16. ### LDC3 Active Member

Apr 27, 2013
920
161
1) I don't know, but some states may not have this requirement.
2) Since the insurance is to pay for injury you cause. The rate should be the same for all people with the insurance company. Each company can have a different rate. It should not depend on the car you drive.
3) Same as #1.
4) Any commercial carrier (Amtrak, OCTA (bus), Carnival Cruise Lines, etc) will have insurance because of the probability of lawsuits due to injury. If you provide a service, it is best to incorporate a company since your personal assets are separate from the company. Anyone suing the company, will only get compensation from the company and not your house. I'm not a lawyer, so there may be some instances where you could lose your home.
BTW, since rockets are very hazardous, I don't think you can obtain insurance for them.

17. ### Mathematics! Thread Starter Senior Member

Jul 21, 2008
1,022
4
Ok what about for small motorized vehicles like ATV , UTV , motorized scooters , jet ski's , and dirt bikes/motorcycles?
Or is insurance usually not mandatory for these types of road or water vehicles.

Also would one have to register the smaller vehicles like ATV , UTV , scootors , jet ski's ,...etc Or is that normally only for larger vehicles.

I guess of course one could insure mostly any valuable item but was more curious on the ones/a list of mandatory ones by state.

If anybody works at the DMV,RMV, or DOT or a property casualty insurance company. And knows the answer please post

thanks for your time.

18. ### LDC3 Active Member

Apr 27, 2013
920
161
I believe that motorized vehicles would require a licence (and insurance) only when operated on a government roadway. This would mean that a farmer's tractor would not need a licence if it operated only on the farm. If it had to cross the road to get to another field, it would need to be licensed.

19. ### WBahn Moderator

Mar 31, 2012
24,562
7,700
I'm not aware of any states that don't require minimum coverage. However, the amount of the minimum varies quite a bit, from somewhere around \$10,000 in some states to over \$50,000 in other states. There are generally three minimums that have to be met - bodily injury per person, bodily injury per accident, and property damage per accident.

It may depend somewhat on the type of vehicle, but not very much. Most states, for instance, have the same minimum coverage requirements for a motorcycle as for a car. What is very different, however, is the cost of that minimum coverage -- it is far less likely that you will cause the same amount of damage/injury with a motorcycle as with a pickup truck, therefore the cost of the liability insurance is much less. When I was riding a motorcycle (25 years ago), my annual premium on the bike was less than my monthly premium on the car for the same coverage.

The cost also depends heavily on the driver, both generically and individually. A young male will generally pay considerably more than a middle-aged female. A person with five tickets in the last three years will pay more than someone with a clean record. A person driving a Corvette will pay significantly more than a person driving an Accord. A person that drives 20,000 miles per year is going to pay more than a person that drives 2,000 miles per year.

How is this question different from #1?

In general, all vehicles operating on public roads have to be insured. If you are only using a vehicle on private property (such as a farm tractor or a construction vehicle that is trailered from site to site) there is there is no requirement in this regard. There may be other regulations, say governing construction sites, that require insurance, but that is probably a broader policy that applies to the operator or the site as a whole and not individual pieces of equipment.