A battery does retain a neutral net charge at all times.
Thus when you charge a capacitance (of a wire for example) electrons flow from the negative battery terminal to one side of the capacitor while the same number of electrons flow into the positive battery terminal from the other side of the capacitor until the capacitor voltage equals the battery voltage.
The battery can continue to do this for numerous times until its chemical energy is depleted and the voltage difference across its terminals drops to zero.

Does that make sense to you?

 

The last time I measured a vacuum with my ohm meter, it read infinite ohms, so that makes the conductance of a vacuum zero. The tiny capacitor is caused by the distance between the battery terminal and the spare piece of wire you connected. It is true that the dielectric constant of a vacuum is different from that of air, but that's not the point here. You are asking about very, very, very, very small quantities and they will still be very, very, very, very small in a vacuum.

We can make this as complicated as you want. You show me your calculation for this stray capacitance between a wire and a nearby piece of battery terminal in air and I will show you the conversion factor for that capacitance in a vacuum.

I am just saying that we can not positively charge a battery as a whole, by attaching and disconnecting different wires to its negative electrode. The electrons will not flow into the wire, unless there is some path for electrons to return to the positive terminus of the battery. I do not see that path in the vacuum.
I am a novice in electronics, so, I am kind of confused, I must be missing something.

 

Can you see the stray capacitance in atmospheric air? Can you see the stray capacitance in my drawing? It is labeled, "1/1000th of a picofarad".

 

A battery does retain a neutral net charge at all times.
Thus when you charge a capacitance (of a wire for example) electrons flow from the negative battery terminal to one side of the capacitor while the same number of electrons flow into the positive battery terminal from the other side of the capacitor until the capacitor voltage equals the battery voltage.
The battery can continue to do this for numerous times until its chemical energy is depleted and the voltage difference across its terminals drops to zero.

Does that make sense to you?

If we connect a wire to the negative terminus of a battery in the vacuum, how would electrons flow into the positive battery terminal, and where would they flow from?

 

Through the stray capacitance created by area and distance...the definition of a capacitor.

 

Can you see the stray capacitance in atmospheric air? Can you see the stray capacitance in my drawing? It is labeled, "1/1000th of a picofarad".

I understand your drawing. As I understand, for the electrons to move there should be a conductive path.
Do you agree, that when we disconnect a negatively charged wire from the battery, the battery as a whole becomes positively charged?

 

Positively charged compared to where?
All voltages are measured between two places. Name the second place to put my other voltmeter wire.

 

Positively charged compared to where?
All voltages are measured between two places. Name the second place to put my other voltmeter wire.

Like a proton is positively charged irrespective of the other places.

 

Guess again. A proton has a positive charge compared to a neutron or an electron.
What has a negative charge compared to one terminal of a battery that it isn't connected to?

 

I have gotten to the point that I can't understand what the problem is.
If a battery charges a capacitance, what is the remaining charge on the battery?
The same as it always was.
Why?
Because the same number of electrons that left the battery to charge the capacitance also entered the positive terminal of the battery by leaving the other plate of the capacitor.

Can I charge a battery by repeatedly charging a piece of wire using the stray capacitance between a random wire and the other terminal? Theoretically, yes, in a few thousand years of hard work.

 

I have gotten to the point that I can't understand what the problem is.
If a battery charges a capacitance, what is the remaining charge on the battery?
The same as it always was.
Why?
Because the same number of electrons that left the battery to charge the capacitance also entered the positive terminal of the battery by leaving the other plate of the capacitor.

Can I charge a battery by repeatedly charging a piece of wire using the stray capacitance between a random wire and the other terminal? Theoretically, yes, in a few thousand years of hard work.

Your example with capacitor is the closed circuit.
My original three questions relate to the open circuit.
Let's say we take a neutral battery (as a whole - number of protons equals number of electrons) and a neutral wire. We connect the wire to the negative terminus of the battery. One electron flows from the battery into the wire. We disconnect the wire from the battery. Now the battery has a net +1 charge, the wire has net -1 charge. We repeat this 1000000 times with different wires. Do you suppose the battery would gain a +1000000 charge, that it would have a total shortage of 1000000 electrons?

 

Perhaps the confusion is in the concept of a single wire in a vacuum. That single wire still has a minute capacitance to any other point in the universe. Air or any other medium is not required for this.
If the wire is connected to one terminal of a battery then there will be capacitance from the wire to the opposite battery terminal. Then any electrons that flow to or from the wire due to the battery voltage will displace an equal number of electrons on the other battery terminal into the battery, maintaining a net neutral charge inside the battery.

You seem to be trying to come up with some pathological case where this isn't true, but there isn't.

 

Perhaps the confusion is in the concept of a single wire in a vacuum. That single wire still has a minute capacitance to any other point in the universe. Air or any other medium is not required for this.
If the wire is connected to one terminal of a battery then there will be capacitance from the wire to the opposite battery terminal. Then any electrons that flow to or from the wire due to the battery voltage will displace an equal number of electrons on the other battery terminal into the battery, maintaining a net neutral charge inside the battery.

You seem to be trying to come up with some pathological case where this isn't true, but there isn't.

Do not get me wrong. I am just trying to understand some basic electricity questions.

Where would an electron come from into the battery?

Let's say we take a neutral battery (as a whole - number of protons equals number of electrons) and a neutral wire. We connect the wire to the negative terminus of the battery. One electron flows from the battery into the wire. We disconnect the wire from the battery. Now the battery has a net +1 charge, the wire has net -1 charge.

Now the battery is charged +1. Where will it get an electron from (in the vacuum)?

 

The electron that goes into the wire displaces an electron from the opposite battery terminal (the other plate of the capacitor) into the battery. You can't separate the battery from the other plate of the capacitor (in this case the other battery terminal).

 

The electron that goes into the wire displaces an electron from the opposite battery terminal (the other plate of the capacitor) into the battery. You can't separate the battery from the other plate of the capacitor (in this case the other battery terminal).

Let's say we take a neutral battery (as a whole - number of protons equals number of electrons) and a neutral wire. We connect the wire to the negative terminus of the battery. One electron flows from the battery into the wire. We disconnect the wire from the battery. Now the battery has a net +1 charge, the wire has net -1 charge.

After we disconnected the wire from the battery, does it have a -1 charge?

 

If your wire carries away some charge, it leaves your battery equally but oppositely charged. Both your wire and your battery will eventually discharge their excess charges to the environment.

That's not an unusual thing; our environment is full of small amounts of electrical charge that are constantly realigning.

How about when you scuff your shoes on a carpet, get charged, then touch a doorknob and get a shock. In that case, the carpet fibres have transferred charge to your body, and then to the doorknob. But nothing explicitely moves those particular charges from the doorknob back to the carpet fibres; they all just sort of even out over time.

 

If your wire carries away some charge, it leaves your battery equally but oppositely charged. Both your wire and your battery will eventually discharge their excess charges to the environment.

How would they discharge in the absolute vacuum?

 

The two ends of the battery form a capacitor. A few electrons will move from the surface of the positive terminal to the surface of the negative and the wire. No electrons created, no dissapeared.

 

The two ends of the battery form a capacitor. A few electrons will move from the surface of the positive terminal to the surface of the negative and the wire. No electrons created, no dissapeared.

Let's say we take a neutral battery (as a whole - number of protons equals number of electrons) and a neutral wire. We connect the wire to the negative terminus of the battery. One electron flows from the battery into the wire. We disconnect the wire from the battery. Now the battery has a net +1 charge, the wire has net -1 charge.
This is all in the absolute vacuum.

After we disconnected the wire from the battery, does it have a -1 charge?

 

Why don't you just settle this with an experiment? Touch one end of you battery to a water pipe. The water pipe is connected to miles and miles of conductor, and thus, the entire planet. Now, disconnect your battery. Does it have a positive charge? Where did you put the voltmeter leads?