Li-Fe Po4 are better for life cycles (see curve) and less prone to fire but they are NOT being used in either all electric cars or aircraft. They are using Li-Ion to squeeze the weight down. IMHO, that choice was insane and reckless but they didn't consult me.

I am not sure if new Prius are using Li or which chemistry.

Tesla is definitely using Li ion.




Nope, looks like Toyota is drinking the Li-Ion kool-aid as welll:

The chemistry of these Li ion batteries is Lithium Iron Phosphate. They are used in all kinds of electric vehicles, all electric service vehiclels, electric boats, electric golf carts and PV systems. "Li ion" is a class of batteries based on lithium ions, the newest chemistry of which is Li-Fe-Po4, which increasingly larger capacity Li batteries are based.

Depreciation seesm to be a killer, people complaining that a 3-4 year old Prius is selling for 50% to 52% of its new $40k value.

So you'd have to weight up saving $8k in fuel over 4 years (if you drive a LOT) vs taking a hit of -$20k lost when you sell.

The Prius has been at or near the top of it's class in resale value sine it's introduction. A buyer can expect to get more when he resales his Prius compared to other automobiles is it's class.

 

The Prius has been at or near the top of it's class in resale value sine it's introduction. A buyer can expect to get more when he resales his Prius compared to other automobiles is it's class.

Not the top:

However, it's Ford's Fusion Hybrid which holds its value best in the hybrid/alternative energy car segment for KBB. It's estimated to hold 59 percent of its value after 36 months.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...lue-leaders-toyota-prius-c-ford-fusion-hybrid

Is 41% loss in 3 years considered "good"? That seems high to me, maybe that's normal. Prius loss must be higher if Fusion leads the segment.

 

Not the top:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080664_hybrid-resale-value-leaders-toyota-prius-c-ford-fusion-hybrid

Here is the quote with the next sentance:

However, it's Ford's Fusion Hybrid which holds its value best in the hybrid/alternative energy car segment for KBB. It's estimated to hold 59 percent of its value after 36 months.

In ALG's ranking, the 2013 Toyota Prius C tops the hybrid vehicles list.

Also, I said highest in it's class

The Ford Fusion Hybrid, Toyota Prius C and Chevrolet Volt all ranked highest in their respective categories for resale value,

Same source.

 

Well the results from the first tank of gas are in. I drove roughly 75% highway, 25% city. 500 miles, keeping highway speed 60-65mph and keeping the "eco-meter" centered when convenient, and I got 54MPG. Trip meter claimed 56.6MPG, so that's reasonably accurate. The battery bank charges and discharges much faster than I anticipated, acting almost like a supercap bank rather than a battery. I'm going to go one more tank full in granny mode and then try driving for a full tank in "power mode" and see how that effects things.

After driving the car for a few hundred miles, I think that fuel savings are due in large part to the car's heads up display, which keeps the driver constantly painfully aware of fuel consumption in real time. I think if other cars had a similar guage cluster, people could realize much more gas savings in any car. If people could just see their gas mileage drop off to 2MPG as they floor it off the line from a stop light, maybe they would accelerate more lightly - I know that I do, now that I have the guage.

I can say that this car changes the way I think about driving, at least while I'm driving this car (drove the other car and went back to my old habits). When I'm going 63 in a 65 zone and the giant lifted 1 ton diesel pickup behind me gets fed up and zooms around me, cutting me off while billowing plumes of black smoke making lots of racket, I think to myself "oh yeah, guy? and how much did that little outburst cost you? BTW thanks for letting me draft you now."

 

Well the results from the first tank of gas are in. I drove roughly 75% highway, 25% city. 500 miles, keeping highway speed 60-65mph

that would get you shot around here.

 

After driving the car for a few hundred miles, I think that fuel savings are due in large part to the car's heads up display, which keeps the driver constantly painfully aware of fuel consumption in real time. I think if other cars had a similar guage cluster, people could realize much more gas savings in any car. If people could just see their gas mileage drop off to 2MPG as they floor it off the line from a stop light, maybe they would accelerate more lightly - I know that I do, now that I have the guage.

And I think you make a very good point here.

I had a '75 Ford Bronco that got 10mpg no matter how you drove it. So I didn't drive it very carefully (i.e., with fuel economy in mind). Then I put a cruise control in it and started using it and whenever I had significant highway driving noticed that my mileage on a tank was typically 12mpg to 14mpg. Then I put in a driving computer that displayed by instantaneous mileage and really saw what behaviors gave me good and poor consumption. By just taking it easy at the lights, I got my average mixed-mode driving up to 16mpg.

When I got an '89 Ford Probe (in '95 with 85k miles on it) I found that if I drove it the same cautious way (and running at the speed limit with cruise control) I got 43mpg out of that 2.2L turbo. But if I indulged myself, I could drop that down into the low 30's real easy.

When I got my Jeep I would use it's computer to govern much of my over-the-road driving, in particular, and could make it from Colorado Springs to China Lake with only a single stop for gas allowing my to straight-shot the 1000mi trip in right at 14 hours with only that one fuel/food/bathroom stop. Although in later years I learned to stop for gas in Las Vegas because they are always much cheaper than California.

 

Well the results from the first tank of gas are in. I drove roughly 75% highway, 25% city. 500 miles, keeping highway speed 60-65mph and keeping the "eco-meter" centered when convenient, and I got 54MPG. Trip meter claimed 56.6MPG, so that's reasonably accurate.
...

That seems extremely good, compared to the May 2013 consumer reports figures;
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/02/the-most-fuel-efficient-cars/index.htm
which show 3 Prius models at 41-44 MPG average. So congrats!

The battery bank charges and discharges much faster than I anticipated, acting almost like a supercap bank rather than a battery. I'm going to go one more tank full in granny mode and then try driving for a full tank in "power mode" and see how that effects things.
...

From what i saw glancing around the Prius owner's forum, that's a sign the battery pack has aged and reduced in capacity. They might have some driving tests you can do listed there, to test the battery?

After driving the car for a few hundred miles, I think that fuel savings are due in large part to the car's heads up display, which keeps the driver constantly painfully aware of fuel consumption in real time. I think if other cars had a similar guage cluster, people could realize much more gas savings in any car.
...

Absolutely! Even without the gauge, making a conscious effort to not put the foot down can give 10-15% better economy from any car.

Likewise a really small carburettor (so even if you do put your foot down it can't swallow much fuel). I once owned a 1970's Honda Civic that easily got 40+ MPG, and it had a tiny single barrel carburettor you could barely stick your thumb down.

It struggled to do 60 MPH tops on the freeway, but boy was it great on fuel when driven slow around town. I bought it from a mechanic who used it to get to work, and years later realised he probably put that really small carbie on to save fuel, heck he knew what he was doing!

Re your truck, you can buy fuel flow sensors on ebay for a few bucks, and splice it in the fuel line. It outputs X pulses per gallon of fuel, so it would be very easy to build a "MPG meter" for your truck if you like that feature.

 

In the olden days this (fuel consumption/efficiency gauge) was done with a vacuum gauge. Keeping the gauges needle at the highest point got you the best mileage.

 

In the olden days this (fuel consumption/efficiency gauge) was done with a vacuum gauge. Keeping the gauges needle at the highest point got you the best mileage.

Yep, I remember them well. The "cheaper" models in a car line would have that economy gauge, and the "high performance" models with the bigger engines would have the tachometer at that location in the gauge cluster.

 

I have a Honda CR-V. In daily around-town driving, I get 31. On the interstate at 70, I get 33. On the Natchez Trace Parkway at 55, I get 37.

And I do drive it more conservatively than other vehicles, just because I want to see the MPG move up.

 

When I bought the prius, it had 5000 miles until the sticker said the oil change was due. I'm used to 3000 miles between oil changes, so I checked the users manual and confirmed it's 5000, because it uses a synthetic 0W-20 oil. Around 4900 a little message popped up on my console telling me "oil maintenance due soon." When I hit 5000, it became a persistent message that stayed on the whole time I was driving. So I took it in to the Toyota dealership for my complimentary first oil change and the guy told me that the oil change wasn't due for another 5000 miles. He said that my car goes 10,000 miles between changes and that the "OIL maintenance required" message was actually just a "general" maintenance required message, and what was actually due was a tire rotation. I asked him why then did the OIL change reminder sticker also say it was due. He replied that it was for the same reason - a tire rotation. Sounded pretty bogus to me, so I told him I wanted the oil changed anyway. As I was waiting in the lobby I looked it up, and he was right. A few months after they released the 2010 model, they sent out a letter saying that the prius and a few other models had their oil change interval changed to 10,000 miles, but they weren't going to be doing any recalls to fix the firmware that causes the message to come up @ 5000. I'm still not sure about it. Just seems unnatural going that long between oil changes. I was also told that the transmission is sealed and doesn't need the fluid replaced, flushed, or even checked until 100 k miles.

 

This all sounds incredible to me, too. My thoughts? What is 0W20? Why would you even want zero viscosity? Must be a viscosity scale I don't know about.

If my dealership had to give you a "complimentary" oil change, I'd tell you that you only need one every 25,000 miles.

And, for my final dumb comment, all transmissions are "sealed". You have to take the pan off the bottom to change the oil. That doesn't make the transmission fluid (oil) immune to heat and particles. I have been to transmission school, and I have rebuilt at least a dozen transmissions, and the best thing you can do for them (short of an overhaul) is change the oil. Is a Prius so lacking in horsepower that the transmission never gets hot or has Ford invented an oil that doesn't break down after years of being very hot? It doesn't matter. As long as 99.99% of the population wouldn't even try to fix their own transmission, my dealership recommends that you never change the transmission fluid.

 

It's to do with the "disposability" of modern cars.

Unlike an old Harley that you can run for a hundred years (and might want to) modern cars are designed to run ok for just a handful of years and then get crushed.

If the engine or transmission wear gets bad due to lack of maintenance they don't care, it's just one more factor that makes you dump the car and buy a NEW one after a few years of ownership.

Respect on the "transmission school"... I've done gearboxes without any training but have never been game to try an auto transmission, those things are a nightmare!

 

Respect on the "transmission school"... I've done gearboxes without any training but have never been game to try an auto transmission, those things are a nightmare!

Amen! I had to take the course three times before I could do an overhaul by myself, and I still lay every part out, in order, right side up, on a very long table so they won't get out of order. You have to do a lot more than a dozen before you can put all the parts in a sack, shake it up, and still know where everything goes!

 

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-20.aspx

Seems like a legitimate oil grade.

 

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-20.aspx

Seems like a legitimate oil grade.

It is legit. Even says it on the oil cap on the valve cover.
Quoted from your linked product"

Oil Change Interval: Oil change intervals can be as short as 3,000 miles or as long 15,000 miles on some new cars. We recommend that you follow the oil and filter change frequencies shown in your owner's manual.

And that's exactly what I plan to do. Oil change every 5000 miles.



What the guy said about the transmission being sealed is that it doesn't have a dip stick, fill spout, or drain spout. When I worked at the quick lube in high school, we used to recommend people to get their transmissions flushed every 40K miles. And I think that's what I'm going to do for this car too, despite the guidance to ignore it until 100K

 

Every time I buy a car, I buy the kit to do a transmission fluid and filter change. I also look up (and do) any periodically needed adjustments, and braze a drain plug into the transmission pan.

While you can not get even half the oil out of a transmission by emptying the pan, replacing 3 quarts of oil every 5000 miles will result in (19) 20% oil changes in 100,000 miles. If there is one, cheap way to encourage a machines longevity, it has to be providing fresh oil.

That's one opinion.

 

I've known people who traded their cars in before 15000 miles. Of course that was many years ago.

That seems outrageous, but, it would drive down the maintenance costs.