Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by shortbus, Sep 1, 2012.
Heard scead is thinking about joining here, since welcome is running out there.
Post removed--unnecessary and unrelated
I've been 'here' for over three years Derstrom.
Anyone that takes that Onion comic as having anything to do with reality has never studied any kind of real science, or even the available history.
I support the acknowledgement of what Tesla actually did, nothing more, nothing less.
The REAL Tesla museum, which Derstrom wasn't even aware of until I posted a link in private.
This site has existed for a while as well.
Note the very careful lack of 'invented' or 'discovered' as if you dig in the truth is far more detailed than that. Which is beside the point in honoring Tesla as you should look at him for what he actually did, he engineered systems that worked, he did not come up with the fundamental concepts of those systems himself though.
In the above linked ETO post (what remains of it...) NSA said it best, Tesla was a great engineer, but at best a poor scientist.
Scead, I can't believe you're picking up right where you left off on ETO. I was going to let things go, but seeing as you're bringing them up again, I have to say this.
First, I realized almost immediately that you've been here a while. I looked you up and saw it. I just never bothered to correct it, since you'd been inactive for 6 months.
That "Onion Comic" may exaggerate some aspects of Tesla's work, but it is still realistic in its reasoning why Tesla should be recognized. And if you can't see that, then again I insist that it is YOU who has not done any real research about Tesla himself. Only about what others have said about him, especially his competitors in the field. You can't go by that alone--you need to read into his ACTUAL HISTORY, not just what others think.
I have been aware of the Tesla Museum in Belgrade probably for even longer than you've known about it. You did not teach me anything whatsoever, and it's sad that you even think you ever did. My point was that there are currently no Tesla museums in the United States, which is the WHOLE POINT of this thread. It is not your place to argue whether or not you think he was a good scientist or not. Period.
I agree that Tesla "discovered" very little in the way of new science. His success came from "discovering" new ways to use old science. He tended to improve on old ideas in incredible, ingenious new ways. That's why he deserves to be recognized. Because he thought outside of the box, and improved so many aspects of our world today. Invention is not limited to coming up with new science. Look it up in the dictionary. Here is an entry I found after a quick search:
And finally, the thought that Tesla was a poor scientist is based completely on opinion--one from people who probably know very little about Tesla's real life, at that. I'm curious as to what your definition of "scientist" is, because Tesla fits perfectly into every single one that I've ever heard.
I wish you would stop cluttering up other peoples' threads with your own opinions and pointless arguments. That's what got you banned from ETO, remember? This thread is about the Tesla Museum that people are working to organize. It is NOT about your opinion of Tesla. You cannot discredit him, no matter how hard you try. That's because most of the other members here know what Tesla really did <snip>
Then this conversation is over as it would have been previously, had you said the same thing.
Tesla has already been recognized as in the Belgrade museum, the myriad websites which worship him, and the public recognition of his advances to engineering, including his name being given to an SI derived unit for magnetism... What more do you want?
How has history slighted Tesla? From what perspective has he been ignored in the past and was at risk of passing outside of the realm of human knowledge?
BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT!
That is not nearly the full extent of what Tesla has done! The accomplishments that he should be recognized for have nothing to do with novel ideas. They have to do with what he's done with the ideas that have been around for centuries. He was the one who knew how to put many of them into real-world use.
I'd like a museum here in the United States where people who know very little about him, such as yourself, can go to learn about his life and accomplishments.
He is very rarely found in history books, for one thing. If you go up to a stranger on the street and ask them if they know who Tesla was, 99% of the people won't know. I suggest you actually try it--ask ten strangers on the street next time you're out. Or in a grocery store. Or at a mall. I can guarantee that most of them will not know the name, or at least won't know who he was or what he's done.
Tesla is found in history books though, plenty of them; how often is irrelevant. His name is found in the International System of Units, that's credit enough. 99%? Who cares? 99% of people can't even name the last 10 presidents of their own countries.. Common knowledge is irrelevant again, and the attempt to bring Tesla back as some scientific rock star is.... misguided at best.
Tesla is not forgotten, he deserves no better note in history than others that have less historical notes that did more for the advancement of human knowledge.
Tesla was the Steve Jobs of his time, no doubt about it.
Your argument is only getting weaker, Scead.
It is very relevant how often Tesla shows up in history books. Look at Edison--He's in just about every history book ever written since his time. Yet he did not do anything original, and he was a total jerk. His contributions to science are significantly less than people think, and far less than Tesla's. That's just one of the many examples of why Tesla should appear in history books more often than he does.
It's a start, but it is not credit enough. Tesla did a lot more than people give him credit for. Not to mention most people don't even know what a Tesla is. Which brings me back to my original point.
First you complain about The Oatmeal's comic, saying it exaggerated too much, now you're exaggerating even more than they did in order to try to strengthen your argument? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
That statement is 100% un-grounded and again doesn't make any sense. The fact that Tesla is not in common knowledge shows that he hasn't been recognized for his contributions. His successes have helped just about everybody, and it's sad that most people don't know that.
Again, I bring up the Edison example. Tesla did far more than Edison ever did, yet he hardly appears in history books and almost nobody knows who he was. Yet at the same time, Edison appears in most history books and is a common name that most everyone knows. That's just wrong.
I won't even dignify that ridiculous claim with a response.
This is my last post in response to you Sceadwian. You're nothing but a troll, and you won't get the satisfaction of any more arguments from me. You want the last word? You got it. The members here are smart enough not to fall for your bullcr*p. It's clear to me that you can't grasp the idea of Tesla being more important than you always thought he was. If you can't be bothered to do some research, I'll just let you continue to be the ignorant fool that you seem to love to be.
Magnet18, I apologize for this sidetrack. Hopefully we can bring this thread back to where it's meant to be. I'll start by mentioning that the fundraiser has reached $1,262,467, with a $850,000 grant still to come from NY state, and 11 days left in the fundraiser This Tesla Museum and Science Center is looking like a reality guys!
Thank you Derstrom, I am perfectly satisfied with the text in this thread as it stands, and I am more than glad to let it stand as a record of both of our opinions forever and ever as I was not previously able to do so
Personally I put Tesla down as a victim of the shameful models American business used at the time. Armstrong was another. Both were genius of the first magnitude. Both were abused shamefully by industries whose business models seemed to be take what you want, and use your wealth to deny credit (and more importantly) recompense.
Many of Tesla's ideas could not be verified, this does not mean they did not happen, but time will tell. The things that did work out tend to be taken for granted nowdays. The list is pretty long.
Disagreements happen. Do remember this is a no flame zone.
I believe Tesla was just in it for the sheer excitement of experiment and science.
Edison was in it for the cash.
Wether Tesla was a scientist or an engineer - who cares? He did do some pretty awesome things, and why not have a museum for an engineer?
It's only important from a purely factual standpoint Sparky, I personally enjoy the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth without all the political slants and name calling.
Believe me I have no wish to say Tesla was anything other than a genius and advanced the state of electrical affairs of the time drastically, for some reason Derstrom seems to think I'm hell bent on ruining the good name of Nicola Tesla, which is absolutely not the case. I also think the Museum is a great idea as long as it includes the whole image of all the parties involved that made what Tesla did possible and includes as much broad based information on what Tesla did and who came up with the fundamental principals involved. The Onion comic is a joke and doesn't mention all of these individuals and previous experiments that were the diving board that Tesla launched himself from
Nothing Tesla did could have been done without the work of hundreds of scientists before him virtually none of which will show up in text books and even most history books. They are forgotten and shunned into the dark corners of history when Tesla is lauded as some perfect figure of pure ingenuity in the Onion comic when the deep down truth of it is far far more complex and interesting to boot.
I'm not sure what Bill is talking about Tesla being shunned by big industry though... Westinghouse bought Tesla's patents for AC generators amongst others, he made (for the time) huge amounts of cash, and spent every penny of it. Tesla was however a poor buisnessman and if he were more street wise he could have put in a clause for future license fees or some such to insure an income.
Even with Marconi's radio fame claims, Tesla finally won in court about patent law, unfortunately it was just after his death so he never got anything from that. Part of Tesla's genius comes from the fact that he was not a normal human being. There are many accounts that show clear indications of deep seated obsessive compulsive disorder, and a couple suggesting (that I can find no solid evidence for) that he may have had one of the more subtle forms of autism, which often have the savant like abilities associated with them as well as deeply asocial personal behaviors.
I can tell you two things for fact. No one here, nor any museum will properly be able to show what kind of person he was and I don't believe history has slighted him, as anyone delving into all of Tesla's inventions will find at their roots dozens of other experiementers, scientists before a time when the world was able to accept them.
The other thing is that I would love to have met the man and think that in modern times that such a genius would have been far better off. Then again todays field of mathmatics and science would boggle even the great mind of Nicola Tesla.
If the onion comic is a joke, why do you get so cross about it?
I'm not upset at all Sparky! The only one here upset is Derstrom, I was just pointing out the reality of what the comic stated because people like Derstrom don't take it as a joke, neither did any of the people that donated their money because the comic went viral.
As I said, I'm glad they're getting the funding, but WHY they got it is reprehensible, and the vehemence that Derstrom is backing is viewpoint attacking me is kind of creepy. I'm allowed to have my viewpoint, just like he's allowed to have his, I'm not saying his is incorrect, you're more than welcome to look up the facts yourself or ask me to provide reference. It would probably take me a couple of hours but I could prove that every single thing in the Onion comic that Tesla was given credit for had previous scientific and/or experimental work done.
I disagree. I think this is trolling, so I am going to ask you to drop it please. Debating what he did and did not do is off topic for this thread.
You may not agree, but this is a flame free zone. His accomplishments, in spite of his weirdness, were major and many. I am tired, and am disinclined to pursue this conversation here. If you wish to start another debating his accomplishments feel free to do so, but do not trash someone elses thread.
Since this batch of posts has been officially declared offtopic to an Offtopic thread, I might as well move it to a separate place.
I just wanted to point out two things:
First, personally, I view all human achievements as a continuous storyline of evolution and progress. One thing leads to another; you must link to the past and you can't proceed without a new chain link.
Second, I don't have any background info of what is said in ETO, but the first post of this thread has underlying hostility caused from a parallel thread in the colleague forum. Please don't bring your issues over, if that's possible.